Podcast: Download (Duration: 53:21 — 49.3MB)
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | RSS | More
The Sustainable Hour no. 611 | Transcript | Podcast notes
In this week’s Sustainable Hour, Malaysian First Nations artist and activist Shaq Koyok joins us to talk about art, Indigenous knowledge and the work of bringing communities together in defence of the living world.
From a puppet parade in South Australia to forest protection in Malaysia and creative action at the United Nations climate talks, his message is clear: we depend on the same planet, and we need to stand together.
“Without the land, our story cannot be continued.”
– Shaq Koyok
Shaq describes himself as an artivist – an artist who uses creativity to speak up for climate justice and Indigenous rights. Currently in Australia for an arts exchange, he has been working with Australian First Nations artist Kat Bell and Riverland communities on projects that turn environmental concerns into something people can make, share and experience together.
One of those projects brought puppets into the streets, drawing on Indigenous storytelling and the wildlife of the Murray River: crayfish, Murray cod, yabbies and pelicans. People who were hesitant at first gradually joined the parade. The audience became part of the artwork.
For Shaq, that is where art has a particular power. It can soften the sharp edges of a difficult conversation without losing the message. A puppet can invite people into a discussion about river pollution, invasive species and climate disruption. It can also give a voice to living things whose interests are too easily ignored.
The river matters because communities depend on it – for food, farming and the ecosystems that sustain them. Caring for it is part of caring for ourselves.
The exchange also includes workshops and a postcard project, giving participants a small, accessible way to express their environmental concerns. Postcards will travel between Australia and Malaysia, carrying community voices across borders.
Shaq and Kat are also developing artwork for an exhibition in Kuala Lumpur, with digital work allowing them to share the puppet project without transporting the huge puppets themselves.
Shaq credits local radio with helping people find the project and join in – a reminder that community broadcasting can help turn an idea into a gathering.
Back in Malaysia, the connection between land, culture and survival is immediate. Shaq describes the Indigenous cultural centre in his village, where storytelling, art, tree planting and traditional ecological knowledge help people learn about protecting their environment. He recalls his community’s success in stopping deforestation in 2010, and the interest that has since brought visitors from other Indigenous communities and Australian universities.
He also describes Indigenous communities in Borneo putting their bodies in front of bulldozers to defend forests. Protecting the land means protecting food, shelter, identity and the possibility of passing their stories to another generation.
The conversation turns to the burning of peatland forests in Southeast Asia and the pollution that crosses national borders. Shaq speaks bluntly about the harm caused when plantation profits take priority over people’s health and the ecosystems they depend on.
Looking towards COP31 in Türkiye, he discusses his work with the Artivist Network and the need for creative action that reaches people’s eyes, minds and hearts. Our hosts question the influence of fossil fuel interests on the climate negotiations. Shaq shares their anger, while insisting that communities must keep organising and making themselves heard – before, during and after the summit.
Leadership, he says, was never something he set out to acquire. He cares about his community and environment, sees what is happening, and feels compelled to do his part.
. . .
Mik Aidt’s opening editorial challenges politicians who call themselves conservative while resisting the work of conserving a safe climate. A recording of Margaret Thatcher addressing the United Nations in 1989 provides a reminder that recognising the danger of environmental destruction has a long history within conservative politics.
Mik argues that fossil fuel interests have helped turn a shared responsibility into a tribal political fight. He challenges the Coalition and One Nation’s promises on climate and electricity prices, points to CSIRO’s research on renewables and storage, and also calls out Labor’s continued approval of fossil fuel projects. He urges voters to examine the climate policies of community independents and the Greens. His central point: political promises do not change the laws of physics. Delaying action protects some interests while leaving the public to carry the costs.
. . .
In Colin Mockett OAM’s global outlook:
• Australia’s economy and food supply: Colin reports on Commonwealth Bank analysis warning that El Niño could cost the economy around $13.4 billion over two years. He explores the pressure on farmers, the outlook for future harvests and why falling livestock prices do not necessarily mean cheaper meat at the supermarket.
• The road to COP31: With Türkiye hosting the summit and Australia leading negotiations, Colin examines tensions over priorities and the pressure from Pacific island nations for action on rising seas and climate finance. Australia’s continued fossil fuel exports sit uneasily beside its promises of support for its Pacific neighbours.
• The next United Nations leader: Colin reports on the race to succeed António Guterres, with former Costa Rican vice-president Rebeca Grynspan Mayufis emerging as a leading contender. He plans to return to the candidates’ environmental credentials in next week’s roundup.
. . .
Tony Gleeson opens with our acknowledgement of Wadawurrung Country, honouring First Nations people’s long relationship with land and community, and the knowledge that relationship holds for responding to the climate crisis.
We finish with Shaq’s contribution to our ‘Be’-series: Be together. Beyond borders and differences, we all need clean air, food and a place to live. Art can help us recognise that shared dependence – and give us a way to act on it.
→ You can follow Shaq’s work on:
shaqkoyok.blogspot.com
. . .
NEW SONG
– A joyful anthem about art bringing us together across our differences – to protect the living world we all depend on. Inspired by our interview with artivist Shaq Koyok. Premiered in TSH no. 611
→ More songs on www.climatesafety.info/music
“How you manage to do [what the fossil fuel companies are doing]? Where your heart go? Where your brain go? It was like, we were so flabbergasted to see that happen in front of our eyes. Just hijacking blindly, just for profit. I think it is so… You’re not a human. You don’t have heart to do that. It’s so mind blowing.”
~ Shaq Koyok, Malaysian First Nation ‘Artivist’
→ Subscribe to The Sustainable Hour podcast via Apple Podcasts or Spotify
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
We at The Sustainable Hour would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we are broadcasting, the Wadawurrung People. We pay our respects to their elders – past, present, and emerging, and extend that respect to all First Nations people.
The traditional custodians lived in harmony with the land for millennia, nurturing it and thriving in often harsh conditions. Their connection to the land was deeply spiritual and sustainable. This land was invaded and stolen from them. It was never ceded. Today, it is increasingly clear that if we are to survive the climate emergency we face, we must learn from their land management practices and cultural wisdom.
True climate justice cannot be achieved until Australia’s First Nations people receive the justice they deserve. When we speak about the future, we must include respect for those yet to be born, the generations to come. As the old saying reminds us: “We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.” It is deeply unfair that decisions to ignore the climate emergency are being made by those who won’t live to face the worst impacts, leaving future generations to bear the burden of their inaction.
“The Indigenous worldview has been marginalised for generations because it was seen as antiquated and unscientific and its ethics of respect for Mother Earth were in conflict with the industrial worldview. But now, in this time of climate change and massive loss of biodiversity, we understand that the Indigenous worldview is neither unscientific nor antiquated, but is, in fact, a source of wisdom that we urgently need.”
~ Robin Wall Kimmerer, weallcanada.org
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
In a planetary emergency, is any idea too risky to explore?
| Australian Premiere Screening: Plan C for Civilization Breakthrough invites you to a special premiere screening of Plan C for Civilization, a new documentary examining one of the most consequential questions now emerging in climate science and policy: whether solar reflection should be seriously investigated as a potential temporary means of reducing dangerous warming. As climate impacts intensify, the film explores a critical timing problem. Rapid emissions reduction is indispensable, but it will not quickly reverse the warming already caused, while drawdown at a scale capable of restoring safe temperatures will take many decades. Plan C for Civilization follows leading scientist David Keith and examines whether solar reflection could help reduce the risk of critical Earth-system damage and collapse, alongside the profound scientific, environmental, political, ethical and governance questions it raises. The film asks whether the risks of solar reflection should be weighed against the consequences of allowing dangerous warming to continue. Failing to build the knowledge needed for critical decisions will leave the world dangerously unprepared. ACMI, Federation Square, Melbourne, Sunday 18 October, 1:30pm (Stay tuned for upcoming screenings in other cities.)  As climate impacts intensify, Plan C for Civilization explores the hopes, risks and momentum behind solar reflection — and asks: is inaction riskier? BOOK NOW |
POLICY BRIEF
There’s too much money in Australian politics
By Kate Griffiths, the Grattan Institute
The Grattan Institute’s new policy brief, Decoupling money from power: Getting electoral expenditure caps right, shows that our democracy is in the grip of an election-spending ‘arms race’.
Parties and candidates have a strong electoral incentive to raise more money so they can outspend their opponents to get their messages to more voters. The political parties collectively declared almost half a billion dollars in expenditure in the year leading up to the 2025 federal election.
New caps on electoral spending will apply from next year – but the job is not done.
Read the policy briefRead Kate’s AFR article
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
TRANSCRIPT
of The Sustainable Hour no. 611
António Guterres, United Nations Secretary-General: (00:00)
Cooperation over chaos. We are all in this together.
Jingle: (00:14)
The Sustainable Hour. For a green, clean, sustainable Geelong: The Sustainable Hour.
Tony Gleeson: (00:24)
Welcome to The Sustainable Hour. We’d like to acknowledge that we’re broadcasting from the land of the Wadawurrung people. We pay tribute to their elders – past, present, and those that earn that great honour in the future. We’re broadcasting from stolen land, land that was never ceded. Always was and always will be First Nations land. We make such a big deal of this because the First Nations people, the Wadawurrung people in this area, as First Nations people all over the country, have nurtured both their communities and their Country for millennia before that land was stolen by the first white colonisers. And in doing that they’ve acquired a great amount of ancient wisdom.
The same ancient wisdom that we’re going to need to survive the climate crisis. And today our guest is a First Nations person from Malaysia. They have a great affinity. First Nations people worldwide now are coming together. And we’re going to see a lot of that that are coming out of COP this year.
Mik Aidt: (01:49)
There’s one thing about Australian politics I find really hard to accept. And that is why should tackling the climate crisis not be an issue for a conservative politician? How can you call yourself conservative and not wanting to conserve a safe climate as we’ve had for 10,000 years, but which we are now wrecking with our burning of oil, coal and gas.
I mean when we talk about conservative, remember Margaret Thatcher? If anything, she was considered a conservative politician. And here’s how she was speaking in the United Nations back then.
Margaret Thatcher: (02:31)
We have all recently become aware of another insidious danger. It is the prospect of irretrievable damage to the atmosphere, to the oceans, to Earth itself. What we are now doing to the world by degrading the land surfaces, by polluting the waters, and by adding greenhouse gases to the air at an unprecedented rate.
All this is new in the experience of the Earth. We are seeing a vast increase in the amount of carbon dioxide reaching the atmosphere. The annual increase is three billion tons. Whole areas of our planet could be subject to drought and starvation if the pattern of rains and monsoons were to change as a result of the destruction of forests and the accumulation of greenhouse gases.
We must have continued economic growth in order to generate the wealth required to pay for the protection of the environment. But it must be growth which doesn’t plunder the planet today and leave our children to deal with the consequences tomorrow. And no issue will be more contentious than the need to control emissions of carbon dioxide, the major contributor, apart from water vapour, to the greenhouse effect. We can’t just do nothing.
Mik: (04:00)
In other words, when Margaret Thatcher could speak like this, it was because at the time there was a political consensus around of course we need to tackle the climate crisis. This is in our in everybody’s interest. But then the so-called vested interest, which is just another word for some cynical people who run the oil and the gas and the coal industry, poured millions of dollars into manufacturing this false debate between two tribes for or against climate action.
And they very cynically created this divide that we’re seeing now in Australian politics.
So here we are with this super El Niño building in the Pacific and scientists warning us of a dangerous summer ahead. While flash floodings and disruption in the weather is like almost something we don’t talk about anymore. It’s just becoming the new norm, isn’t it? With tornadoes and damage of buildings.
And cars getting stuck in the water. And in the midst of all that, we have a so-called conservative party in Australia promising us that if we elect them, they’re going to tear up Australia’s climate laws and scrap net zero and remove all the regulation to cut emissions and so on and so on. A complete repeat of, if not Trump, then one nation. And they do all this while they pretend that they are promising us cheaper electricity. Without having any evidence for that.
CSIRO, the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, which is Australia’s National Science Agency, they say that the cheapest way to build an electricity system here in Australia absolutely needs to be done with renewables backed by storage. Our old coal plants are falling apart, they’re getting too old. So we need something reliable and something cheap to replace it. And for some reason both One Nation and now the coalition seem to think that they know better than the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization when it comes to how to create cheaper energy. Where is that politician or that candidate here in the state election in Victoria who’s honest about the reality and who will speak for us, the people who are paying for the damage that’s caused by the climate disruption and for electricity prices that have been rising, including of course what’s happening with the fossil fuels at the moment.
Who do you think actually benefits from us if we keep putting it off as they are suggesting we should do? Putting off taking climate action until it’s really too late. Who’s gonna benefit from putting that off? And don’t hear this as a support for Labor, who continue to approve new fossil fuel projects all over the place.
I find it so annoying and sad, really, that it, this is what Australian politics have come to. These cheap tricks of promising voters that yes, you can have a cake and eat it too. No, you can’t. That’s lying. We can’t just leave the climate for someone else out there to deal with. It’s our responsibility. We are all in the same boat about this. It’s not a debate between two camps as they’re trying to make it. It’s humans versus the fundamental laws of physics. And physics don’t compromise. So this is about dishonesty. And when there’s dishonesty in the room, we need to call it out.
We need to call out the vested interest and what is really going on behind the scenes. An industry protecting its trillion dollar assets. That’s what’s happening. And everyone else is increasingly beginning to feel the pain and pay the price. Honestly, and really what this boils down to is if you are conservative by heart, by the real understanding of what a conservative spirit means. Wanting to preserve life on planet Earth.
Margaret Thatcher: (08:12)
And no issue will be more contentious than the need to control emissions of carbon dioxide.
Mik: (08:18)
Well, you don’t have much other choices. I’m sorry to say, but that’s how the political landscape looks like in Australia at the moment. You have two choices when you go on the day when you go to put your vote in, which is to vote for an independent. If you are lucky enough that there is some sensible independent in your electorate, check out that person’s climate agenda.
And you may be lucky that it’s a community independent who has integrity and honesty around the climate science. Otherwise, you’ve got the greens. The Greens, is at the moment the only sensible place you can put a vote if you are worried about where the world is going and where the climate is taking us. Expanding fossil fuel projects or closing downwind farms and and as you know, scrapping net zero and all the rest that the coalition and one nation is promising us, it is not going to help us and it’s not going to make your electricity any cheaper in the years to come. You’re being conned as far as cheap and reliable energy is concerned. So watch out and be mindful of people who claim to be conservative, but who are actually wrecking and causing more harm and throwing away the safety and the future for each of us.
Margaret Thatcher: (09:48)
But it must be growth which doesn’t plunder the planet today and leave our children to deal with the consequences tomorrow.
Mik: (09:57)
Over to the global outlook… As always, every week we’re lucky enough to have Colin Mockett OAM who has been scanning what’s been coming in and is giving us an analysis of what we need to know. So Colin, what do we need to know this week?
COLIN MOCKETT’S GLOBAL OUTLOOK: (10:15)
Good morning, Mik! Yep, our roundup this week begins here in Australia, where we have reported over the last two weeks that our meteorological office has warned that the approaching summer will be hot with high fire and flood risks due to global warming and the strong El Nino that’s expected. Well, this week came another forecast, but this time from an economic angle.
Courtesy of the Commonwealth Bank, the CBA, put their economic team onto the job and asked them to come up with an Australian summer economic forecast based on the MET Office’s data. The result was not positive to say the least. The new paper said that we can expect to pay higher prices for food staples and experience lower economic growth due to those conditions.
Their paper forecast that our overall economy could suffer a hit of about thirteen point four billion dollars over the next two years. The CBA forecast took in elevated oil and fertiliser prices, rising interest rates, and the current worker shortages, all of which threaten Australia’s agricultural sector. The report started well, quoting figures from the “Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics and Sciences”, which shows Australia’s crucial winter cropping period started before the climate phenomenon set in, and it meant that most regions have not been exposed to adverse conditions yet. So it forecast farmers would reap a sixty-one million ton crop this harvest, which would place 2026 as the fourth best season on record. But then if the El Nino strengthens over the coming summer, as forecast, the impact on the 2027 crop will be much more severe. Farmers are already reducing their planting areas and switching their cropping mix so that to use less water. intensive grains such as wheat and barley in place of the more lucrative crops of canola and chickpeas. It’s the same for beef and sheep farmers, the report said, as drier conditions lead to more livestock being sent to slaughter, pushing down livestock prices. But the prices for the consumers, meat prices, particularly for beef, were still likely to remain high because of record export demand from the US. Now that took on board yet another unpredictable factor that faces everyone; the US President’s decisions. And that leads to another prediction that was published last week about the upcoming COP31 forum, which is happening next month in Antalya, Turkiye.
Watchers are predicting some contentious debates about fossil fuels, because observers predict sharp clashes between the co hosts, that’s Turkiye and Australia, as the latter’s initial priority list does not explicitly mention transitioning away from fossil fuels or loss and damage financing. While any reference to ‘Loss and Damage, doesn’t appear in Australia’s official COP 31 documents, it should be added that “progress in discussions around this have progressed” is mentioned in the Official Joint Presidency document
There’s also some division about the dynamics of shared presidency. Turkiye holds the formal presidency and leads the action agenda while Australia holds exclusive authority as a president of negotiations, creating a unique split responsibility framework. Keen watchers are saying that this is almost certain to cause divisions with predicted areas of contention revolving around electrification and waste targets.
And then there’s the Pacific Island Nations pushback against rich nations. Anthony Albanese’s presence at the region’s pre COP event that’s hosted in Fiji and it’s also taking place in Tuvalu, that tended to amplify the Pacific nations priorities. Increasing pressure on negotiations to address rising sea levels, ocean resilience and adaptable finance. As we know, Australia faces both ways on these situations, telling the nations that we support them while remaining among the world’s biggest fossil fuel exporters.
Just how Anthony Albanese gets around this is going to be really interesting to find out.
And finally the race to replace António Guterres as UN Secretary General has heated up, with a couple of contenders dropping out and a new clear favourite emerging. She’s the former Costa Rican Vice President Rebeca Grynspan Mayufis. She’s currently the front runner in a field of seven remaining candidates. These are Caroline Rodrigues Burkett and she’s Guyana’s UN ambassador and Rafael Mariano Grossi, he’s the Director General of the IAEA. That’s followed by Macky Sal of Senegal, Maria Fernanda Espinosa Garses from Ecuador, and Ivonne A-Baki from Ecuador also, and Olara Otunnu of Uganda.
Now I’m gonna take a closer look at their credentials and let you know next week who is likely to be ‘A’ for the environment and ‘B’ much more likely to wind up with the job because as we pointed out last week it’s not a clear vote. It’s a question of preferences. Because this ends our round up for the week.
Jingle: (16:54)
Listen to our Sustainable Hour – for the future.
Tony: (17:02)
Our guest today is someone we’ve had on before, a First Nations person from Malaysia. His name is Shaq Koyok. So Shaq, welcome to The Sustainable Hour. You’re classify yourself as an artivist, using your art as a way of getting messaging around climate and justice. Thanks for giving your time today. It’s appreciated.
Shaq Koyok: (17:31)
Yeah, it’s been my pleasure to be part of this.
Tony: (17:35)
You’re in Australia at the moment. What brings you here?
Shaq: (17:40)
Well, I’m here for the Corridor Artists Exchange program with the First Nation artists in Australia. So I’ve been here since August. But two days ago, I just done my initial program on the River Murray in the Riverland area in South Australia. So I’ve done this puppet parade with the community and then did a puppet performance addressing about the climate issues and also about the river pollution and also current environmental issues that we cover in our puppet performance. Yes, this is I’m here for and also I’m going try to develop a new exhibition. Together with the First Nation artists here, we will try to get our exhibition set up for our exhibition next year in January.
Colin: (18:37)
And you had there was a puppet parade? How did that go?
Shaq: (18:42)
It was brilliant and we managed to bring people in together, lots of people I guess quite hesitant to participate in the beginning, but when we bringing the puppet on the street itself, we can just pull people in while we walk, more than an hour walk, and we just bring people in slowly slowly join our parade and suddenly they become of our performance arts and what I think is a beautiful thing when you bring art in your activism everybody will love to be part of it you know because it’s I think the way art do in your activism you’re softening the so-called sharp edge kind of word that you want to you know express it so
Colin: (19:33)
How did your parade of puppets first of all, was that through the streets or was that in a theatre? And how did it relate to climate change?
Shaq: (19:44)
So it’s on the street. don’t have a place like theatre to do our performance. Our performance actually on the street. So we actually have a good numbers of organisations that really help us to make this happen. Especially the Berri/Barmera Council and also quite a number of organisations like “Ramble Arts” that are helping us to pull this off because to have a parade on the street is quite difficult because you have to block the road and so on so on. But the performance itself is quite one of the things that we want to emphasise that how the community can be together in terms, you know, being part of the art piece at the same time, really using their body of movement to address about our climate emergency now. And also the review
Ecosystem in Riverland is quite important ecosystem. Most of the community in South Australia, especially we have a lot of farming community that really need, you know, river water to, you know, water their farmland. But if so much of a climate change now and a lot of river become quiet, you know, one of very sensitive ecosystem without them.
You won’t have any food to eat. You don’t have anything to grow. So it’s very important to adjust that through our puppet parade.
Colin: (21:20)
So how many puppets are on were on your parade and were they depicting real people?
Shaq: (21:28)
No, so the puppet parade actually our puppet parade is actually try to bring the indigenous story especially the indigenous folklore into our parade. So many of this image in the puppet is actually wildlife. Wildlife, plants and everything because we know there’s a lot of wildlife have no voice to speak. We can use our art as a medium for the wildlife to speak about what they’re concerned about. And I think it’s one of the things think is important to speak unspeakable living systems that we never have given them opportunity to speak about. So through this performance, we managed to bring people to embody the spirit of the nature itself in our performance. So we really bringing our indigenous storytelling in our puppet parade and as a performance. Because I’ve been grow up, you know, listening to storytelling through my mother to my sister, my, you know, my sister. So I bringing the…methodology that’s been carried out for our generation into our public health program and we’re really happy to see the community actually being part of it.
Mik: (22:59)
How the community can be together would appear to me to be maybe the biggest question the whole world is grappling around at the moment, the way politics are going, the way the world is moving. A lot of people are asking themselves how can we be better as a community? How can we come together? So in in your understanding, apart from the puppet show, what can we do to come together in the communities?
Shaq: (23:25)
I guess we have the common interest in our, you know, the way we live now. we need the, you know, everybody have need some food to eat, for example, and air to breathe and land to stand on. And those are common thing that we have. We should think about our, you know, needs and…
That’s somehow quite easy to say, but people sometimes forgot about that’s what exactly we all need. And we living in one big planet we have, but actually we are tiny dust in the universe. I think we need to be together in the only living planet we have now. I think we don’t have another second planet to live on. So we need to take care of it.
Forget our differences. I think we have so much more in our humanity to live in this planet together and make sure we have a liveable future. I think that’s very important to make sure we keep this planet as liveable for our future children.
Colin: (24:46)
Coming back to the weekend and your puppet parade, Shaq, were the animals Australian animals or Malaysian animals and how was it received? Did you get a big crowd and were they happy and clapping?
Shaq: (25:00)
So the animal that we are focusing on, on the river land animals, the many of river ecosystem, the animal live in a river ecosystem that we focus on. So especially the Murray crayfish and Murray cod and quite a number of yabbies and also pelicans. But one of things I noticed a lot with this river land, the is the invasive species like the European carp has been introduced many years now really destroying the ecosystem. I can see a lot of carp just try to go breaking into many dams that built by the rangers in the Riverland. And this is kind of our fault.
Humanists are so irresponsible in creating that, bringing some invasive species into our ecosystem, the native ecosystem that really need proper care, not just human intervention that really destroy the ecosystem. And one thing I think I learned about through my journey, creating this puppet itself, is the way the community are slowly but it takes time it takes me more than one month to really bring the community together is the the way the support is totally different that we have in Malaysia of course. I had the privilege live in quite a like communal life in Malaysia still it’s quite strong and South Australia I guess the way people live here quite different so a lot of things I learned and I have to, quite a few people supporting by bringing me into the radio interviews. I think that’s one of the things people get to know my projects and our projects through the radio interviews that have been done like three times. we are, people just come along and the streets suddenly, I heard your puppet project in the ABC Riverland, and then they turn up. I was so happy to have that, and I don’t think have that kind of crowd that join us without the radio support. And that’s one other thing I learned through our imagining here.
Colin: (27:42)
Shaq, you can’t beat a puppet show on the radio. Look, did you get local school children or local volunteers to manipulate the puppets? And again, how was it received by the audience?
Shaq: (27:58)
Yeah, there’s quite a couple of students from a local school that we done a workshop with. So we done a quite a number of not just a puppet parade, puppet workshop, but actually we…
Then this postcard exchange programs where we try to bring the community creating a postcard that they can voice about their concern about environment through postcard. And this postcard we will exhibit it in exhibitions. And also we bring this postcard back to Malaysia so they can exchange again the voices from the community through this postcard, bring it to Malaysia and we exhibit this postcard.
We will do this exchange postcard in Malaysia and bring back to Australia. anyway, I try to bridge the gap between two different nations at the same time. I think, I hope this kind of project will give some inspiration to others to do similar thing. We actually not different, we are the same. And through this postcard exchange, I think we enable community who have afraid to voicing their concern about environment, at least a little postcard give them a voice.
Colin: (29:21)
Shaq, just if we can talk a little bit about the exchange project that brought you to Australia. What who was behind that or what organisation was behind it?
Shaq: (29:34)
So I’ve been working with this artist, friend of mine, Kat Bell. She’s a First Nation artist from Brisbane originally, but she now lives in Riverland area. And we’ve been working on this project since 18 months ago. So it’s quite long process of creating this project together. And we have managed to get the grant from the inspiring SA, and also MOD (Museum of Discovery) in Adelaide to run our program. So we had quite a number of programs through past months. So we get three workshops in MOD, And we hope with this puppet parade and also art program to run and the postcard exchange will continue.
So we’re not going to stop here. We will have to bring this postcard exchange to other parts of the world. Hopefully, by later postcards, we’ll bring the community together. think that’s one of the things. In addressing the climate, mean, just see that we face now. If you read the current news in South East Asia, we have the huge peatland burning happened in South East Asia, especially in Kalimantan Indonesia and it has affected quite a number of nations, especially my home country Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, Philippines. We have very, very bad air pollution from the peatland forest burning that happened now. And I think I see quite difficult to address it and also because of climate change about El Niño also the heat become much more worse and a lot of irresponsible palm oil plantation owners they take advantage of the hot dry weather by burning the forest of peatland that causes huge travel to the community of so many regions in South East Asia. yes, so hopefully we will.
Shaq: (31:57)
We will try to bring that story to the community here. we find a way to address that problem by maybe a boycotting the palm oil producer in Malaysia or Indonesia, because they are the ones who damaging the environment. Then because they want to make more profit by clearing the land through burning, I think that’s quite… It is very dangerous. It is a hazard to the community in Malaysia and in South East Asia. It not just one country. Many communities are affected from this.
Colin: (32:38)
It’s another multinational conglomerate. it’s not just the fossil fuel multinationals. Multinationals are causing harm everywhere.
Shaq: (32:49)
So while I’m here, I’m creating this project together with Kat Bell, the local artist, indigenous artist here. So we will create quite a number of artwork also, because this artwork we will bring back to Malaysia and then we will hold our big exhibition in Kuala Lumpur and how we can use this. We call it community art because we want to community have a opportunity really express it through the artwork they created together with us.
Colin: (33:31)
Hm. You’ll be taking the Australian puppets back to Malaysia and putting them on display.
Shaq: (33:38)
It’s not that easy to bring a puppet but we don’t have that kind of capacity to bring the puppet. It’s huge but we will bring the digital format of artwork and we will use quite a number of technologies to really display it, play around with the challenges we’re to face and we try to bring the technology together, bring this puppet through maybe digital work that we will create our show.
Tony: (34:15)
Shaq, you’re a proud Malaysian First Nations person. Is there much interaction internationally between First Nations people that you’re aware of? And maybe if we can talk about that?
Shaq: (34:30)
Yes, yes, yes. Apparently, I find it quite hard now to keep in touch with numbers of emails to really… I have ADHD problem with myself, and I find it hard to keep in touch with the emails. But we have a lot of community around the world, especially the First Nations organisation artists and artivists protected me and also because I’m also helping to run this indigenous culture centre in my village, have a quite number of indigenous community come over to our culture centre to learn about our way of protecting the natures because our culture centre is really a centre for indigenous community to leading the way in terms of climate mitigation through our tree plantation program that we created in our cultural centre.
And also we bring in our indigenous cultures in our storytelling and our expressing our art also because we can see there’s a value of indigenous culture and indigenous what’s it called ecological knowledge that been haven’t put forward before now quite number interest in the traditional ecological knowledge within the indigenous community become very very valuable can we, I think it’s very inclusive, rather than exclusive. I think that’s one of the things I find at the culture centre like the one we have back home that had quite a number of interests from many indigenous communities around the especially in Australia for some reason, we get lot of visits from the university, especially the Bonds University, Torrens University, Flinders University and Carver Australia, bringing the indigenous students to learn about our indigenous way of protecting nature. so, because we have the success story back in 2010, where we managed to stop the deforestation going on, where I’m sure when we did talk about sustainable hours, on my first The Sustainable Hour visit, we addressing about that issues, how we managed to stop the forest. So, from that success story, bringing a lot of interest people, a lot of people come over to learn about how we managed to save it.
And the same thing, we still continuing to protect in the forest and try to learning using our indigenous ecological knowledge in bringing the community together rather than just profiting through the land. But we want to protect this land as a precious ecosystem for our life because peatland is one of the very best
I think it’s the one of the very best ecosystems to mitigate our climate and carbon footprint that we released. I was shocked to see the burnings happen now in the Kalimantan area where the peatland was torched. I was so sad to see that.
Colin: (38:04)
Yeah. There are parallels between your story, the Malaysian story, and Australia’s, in that your indigenous population of which you are one, was swamped by inputs that were bought by the British. In your particular case it was Indians and Chinese, and in Australia it’s the British themselves and Europeans.
I found it interesting that the indigenous population of Malaysia are leading the fight back on behalf of the climate, on behalf of the planet. Is there an input from the Australian Indigenous community in the project that you’re working on at the moment?
Shaq: (38:53)
Yes, there’s quite a number of indigenous communities in Australia. Really, there are quite a number of very inspiring activists that do similar work that I’m doing. so, yes, we have a very small population in Malaysia, I think.
One disadvantage being minority, but at the same time, think that doesn’t stop us from voicing our voice, especially about our very racist system we have in Malaysia. I think that’s, of course, we are a small population, but we find a way to lead in terms of protecting the nature. Because this practice has been carried on for many many generations by our ancestors. So we just following our ancestor wisdom to protect the nature because we rely on it. Doesn’t matter many communities have a good income already can buy food from the chef of the supermarket, but our knowledge of still tied to the land – that our story still tied to the land. Without the land, our story cannot be continued. then without the land, we cannot breathe, we cannot stand on, we cannot build a house, we cannot eat.
Tony: (40:36)
Very much the case with the Australian First Nations people too. Would it be accurate to say that the Malaysian First Nations people are at the forefront of the fight against climate change?
Shaq: (40:45)
Yes, I think in my perspective what I’ve seen in now quite a number of indigenous communities are rising together and try to, you know, protecting literally on the ground, putting the blockade to stop the deforestation going on. And especially in Borneo, part of Malaysia, many communities really putting their bodies in front of excavators or bulldozers from entering the forest to destroy it. think that’s one of the things we shown quite a number of comrades around the world that we’re willing to put our body to save our natures.
Colin: (41:31)
And that’s the message you’ll be taking to the COP conference in Turkiye.
Shaq: (41:35)
Absolutely. Not just that, I’m part of this organisation called Artivist Network. So in my work in these groups, I will put my art practice in activism because we believe to address the problem is not just to understand the problem, but actually to make people think about the problem that we face. That’s our duty as artists, as a community, as people who live on this planet. Make sure people think, not just do things blindly without using your brain and your heart. Because at the end of the day, if you just let this planet leave us it is now. We left nothing for our future children. Zero.
Tony: (42:33)
Shaq, you’ve obviously have a leadership role in your community. How how did that come about?
Shaq: (42:42)
I don’t know. Good question! I never think about that. But I just, think I have to have a lot of things to think. I care about the environment, I care about community that I’m with. And I really make sure I do my part. So the leadership is just coming eventually, it’s just automatically. I’m not, I’m not a leader, but I sound like it, but it’s not what I imagined I would like to do. But I think the way I see quite a number of environmental issues through my years, I think that’s one of the I feel if I just hold this kind of my opinion on that environmental issue, it won’t help to solve it. I think I find it really hard time in the night to think about it. I will not sleep if I not addressing it. So that’s one of the things that really drive me to do what I’m doing now because I think I’m okay about the environment and also I’m okay about the community. So yeah. Maybe that will answer the question now, I don’t know.
Colin: (44:14)
Now, Shaq, I’m aware that we’re coming towards the end of the time and it’s been fascinating talking to you, but there’s one more thing I have to say and I think I speak for the three of us that we have over the last several years lost faith in the COP conference system because it’s been, in our view, overtaken by fossil fuel companies.
Are you still hopeful that your message that you will be putting in front of the people will result in some action?
Shaq: (44:50)
That’s true. We have a problem with many of these fossil fuel lobbyists who manage to change the way they act, but know, they are taxing the carbon. And at the same time, we cannot just let that happen. We make sure the people are together in addressing the issue and make sure they hear our voices through many of actions that we will do. And I think we need to capture people’s minds, people’s eyes as well, and people’s hearts through our activism. Because I think that’s what we are facing at the moment. We face with the enemy from the fossil fuel lobbyists that for some reason they managed to snuck in and hijack quite a number of decision-making meetings within the, you know, COP events and that’s just very, very irresponsible by the fossil fuel, you know, the companies, you know, because at the end of the day for them it’s like making another business, another profit. I think that’s just very irresponsible. It’s so heartless, so cruel and then they just let people, you know, die in front of their eyes as long as they make a profit.
How you manage to do that? Where your heart go? Where your brain go? It was like we were so flabbergasted to see that happen in front of our eyes. Just hijacking blindly just for profit. I think it’s so… You’re not a human. You don’t have heart to do that. It’s so mind blowing. I just cannot picture myself. I cannot really imagine how…
What sort of people doesn’t have the heart to care about people? It already just profit, profit, profit. It’s so hard for me to see it. That’s why I think we need to be together. So our organisation among many organisations try best we can – to open people heart and open people mind through our creative activism that we will plan. Not just that, not just during COP, but before leading COP, after COP also, we will still do the best we can bring people together because of course we’re dealing with the smartphone era now and it’s very hard to bring people together now, especially, you know, the young generation.
So we try the best we can to use the visible striking action to bring people to understand about our climate emergency, make it even more inclusive and make people realise how this irresponsible, fossil fuel company done to our planet.
Mik: (47:58)
Shaq, if our listeners are interested in following your work, is there somewhere online, is there a website you can refer them to?
Shaq: (48:05)
You basically just look my name, Shaq Koyok. I just go out in Instagram. I got plenty of work days. You can have a look and you can go to my Google, just Google my name. Google it. I’m sure you’ll see a couple of work that I’m working on at the moment.
Mik: (48:29)
We’ve come to the Be-section of The Sustainable Hour where we ask you, Shaq, to give us an idea of what you think we should be.
Shaq: (48:39)
Wow, okay. I guess we need to be together in this machines, this doesn’t matter what differences we need to put aside what differences we need to put aside border, passport or any kind of, you know, nonsense thing because we have the real issues here. We need to depend on this planet. And I hope people will open their mind through things they can see, things they can touch, things they can stand on.
That open mind will give you an open heart and then you need to both work together in terms of, know, because no matter where you live, by the end of the day you need to have good air and good food and clean air, clean food to eat, to live together.
Mik: (49:36)
So in short…?
Shaq: (49:38)
Be together. Yes. I think that’s the one key word I think that describes what we thought today.
Mik:
Be together.
. . .
SONG:
‘Be Together’
Intro:
Be together, be together
ABC news reporter:
“It is hot in the Pacific Ocean right now…”
Verse 1:
A parade of giant puppets
drifting slowly down the street
I feel lucky just to watch it
till the rhythm finds my feet
Chorus:
Be together, be together
For the air and for our bread
For the ground beneath our footsteps
And a roof above our heads
Be together, be together
Got a hand? Just come along!
Plant a garden, guard a forest
Bring your story, sing your song
Sing your song
Verse 2:
While they’re counting profits
Forests vanish into flame
Smoke drifts across the borders
Water rises just the same
But I see another future
Walking down this street today
Every voice becomes a river
when we choose a different way
Chorus:
Be together, be together
For the air and for our bread
For the ground beneath our footsteps
And a roof above our heads
Be together, be together
Got a hand? Just come along!
Plant a garden, guard a forest
Bring your story, sing your song
Bring your story, sing your song
Bridge:
When the banners all come down
and the marching day is through
We can plant the gardens here
Keep the forests growing too
When the speeches all are over
and the crowds have gone away
The work begins beneath our feet
and we’re the ones who lead the way
Chorus:
Be together, be together
For the air and for our bread
For the ground beneath our footsteps
And a roof above our heads
Be together, be together
Got a hand? Just come along!
Plant a garden, guard a forest
Bring your story, sing your song
Outro:
Every voice becomes a river
Every step becomes a song
Those giant puppets keep on marching
Every time we move along
Bring your story, sing your song
Shaq Koyok: “We need to be together. It doesn’t matter what differences. We need to put aside what differences. And I hope people will open their mind through things they can see, things they can touch, things they can stand on. That open mind will give you an open heart and then you need to both work together.”
Indigenous song: From video by Shaq
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
CALENDARS
Events we have talked about in The Sustainable Hour
Events in Victoria
The following is a collation of Victorian climate change events, activities, seminars, exhibitions, meetings and protests. Most are free, many ask for RSVP (which lets the organising group know how many to expect), some ask for donations to cover expenses, and a few require registration and fees. This calendar is provided as a free service by volunteers of the Victorian Climate Action Network. Information is as accurate as possible, but changes may occur.
PETITIONS AND OPEN LETTERS
you could add your name to
→ List of running petitions where we encourage you to add your name
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
THE SUSTAINABLE HOUR ON AIR
LIVE STREAMING
on Wednesdays
The Sustainable Hour is streamed live on the Internet and broadcasted on FM airwaves 94.7FM in the Geelong region every Wednesday from 11am to 12pm (Melbourne time).
→ To listen to the program on your computer or phone, go to www.947thepulse.com where you then click on ‘Listen’ on the top right of the page.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ARCHIVE
Over 600 hours of sustainable podcast episodes
Listen to all of The Sustainable Hour radio shows as well as our special Regenerative Hours, Climate Revolution and Force of Life episodes in full length.
→ Archive on climatesafety.info – with additional links
→ Archive on podcasts.apple.com – phone friendly archive
NEWSLETTER
Receive our podcast newsletter in your mailbox
We send a newsletter out approximately four to six times a year. Email address and surname is mandatory – all other fields are optional. You can unsubscribe at any time.
FOLLOW, INTERACT AND SHARE
The Sustainable Hour in social media
• Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheSustainableHour → Front covers
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/TheSustainableHour
• Blue Sky: www.bsky.app/profile/thesustainablehour.bsky.social
• Twitter: www.twitter.com/SustainableHour
(NB: we stopped using X/Twitter after it was hijacked-acquired by climate deniers)
• YouTube: www.youtube.com/c/thesustainablehour
Great if you’ll share the news about this podcast episode on your social media platforms!
