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The Sustainable Hour no. 612 | Transcript | Podcast notes
In The Sustainable Hour on 14 October 2026, our guest Ursula Rakova brings us the story of the Carteret Islanders in Papua New Guinea. She describes more than 3,000 people living on six small islands, where shorelines are shrinking and growing food is becoming increasingly difficult.
Ursula is the executive director of Tulele Peisa, which means “Sailing the waves on our own”. Established in 2005 at the initiative of the islanders’ chiefs and elders, the organisation helps families relocate to safer ground on mainland Bougainville. Its purpose is to help the community chart its own destiny, protect its cultural identity and build sustainable livelihoods.
The practical work begins long before a family boards a boat. Ursula describes community discussions, counselling, exchanges between island and mainland chiefs, and preparations to ensure families can grow food in their new homes. The Catholic Church has made land available, and historical connections with the people of Tinputz help the islanders reconnect with a place already woven into their story.
There are signs of renewal. Giant taro, a food crop the islanders lost in the 1980s, can grow again in their new location. Cocoa farming is creating income and opportunities for relocated families and their host communities. Ursula is looking for overseas buyers who can help turn that work into a reliable livelihood.
But the programme needs resources to move forward. Ursula reports that 17 Carteret families are living in and around Tinputz, with about 40 homes needed at two further relocation sites before more families can move. She says the Papua New Guinea and Bougainville governments have provided no funding for her organisation’s relocation work, which has relied on support from charitable organisations, churches and the Finnish government.
“We are not victims, we are fighters,” she tells us.
Ursula speaks openly about anxiety, frustration and anger, while remaining optimistic about what her people can build. She reminds us that climate change is a human rights issue. Losing land also threatens cultural identity and the connection to ancestors whose graveyards remain on the islands. These losses cannot be measured simply by putting a price on a house.
. . .
Our 612th episode opens with another community fighting for its future: the Denman Aberdeen Muswellbrook Scone Healthy Environment Group, known as DAMSHEG, celebrating its High Court victory concerning the Mount Pleasant coalmine expansion in the Hunter Valley. Mik reflects on the importance of climate accountability reaching Australia’s highest court. The discussion centres on Scope 3 emissions – including the pollution produced when exported coal is burnt overseas – and the responsibility to consider conditions to minimise them under New South Wales planning law. More about this further below.
Colin Mockett OAM’s global outlook explores the contest to succeed António Guterres as UN Secretary-General, Pacific climate diplomacy ahead of COP31, the politics of Russian diesel supplies and destructive flooding in Chile. He also brings our regular update on Forest Green Rovers.
We hear António Guterres call for national plans to transition away from fossil fuels, with protection for workers and communities. His demand is direct: “Polluters must pay!”
George Monbiot explains how climate attribution science helps us understand extreme weather, warning that continued fossil fuel burning will bring catastrophe upon catastrophe.
Recorded conversations between Chris Bowen and Matt Kean, chair of Australia’s Climate Change Authority, and Lord Adair Turner, chair of the Energy Transitions Commission, explore the growing economic case for clean energy. Falling battery costs, electric vehicles and the combination of solar power with storage offer practical opportunities to cut emissions and household costs. Kean also stresses the need to make these opportunities accessible to renters and people in regional communities.
. . .
Music gives the Hour room for both grief and resolve:
• ‘Hush Now, Little One’ – a song about caring for each other, holding young and old through difficult times, and finding strength without shutting out the pain.
• ‘In Service to Life’ – our new song about bringing power, technology and the choices we make into service to the living world.
– The world we make is also making us. Inspired by Joseph Gelfer, Barbara Lepani and the book Man of Earth.
→ More songs from The Sustainable Hour here
“You don’t have to wait for someone else to become the adult in the room. As the Men and Women of Earth we rise into responsibility. With gentleness and humility. But also with with courage and honesty.”
~ In Service to Life, a song by The Sustainable Hour’s Force of Life Collective
. . .
From the Carteret Islands to Australia’s courtrooms, this Hour connects the people carrying the costs of fossil fuels with the struggle to make those responsible answer for them. Ursula’s determination gives that struggle a human voice – and a clear demand for the support her community needs to shape its future.
→ More about Tulele Peisa:
www.uusc.org/partner/tulele-peisa
“We are not victims, we are fighters and we will continue to fight. And it’s not just the rising sea levels, it’s not just the shorelines that are decreasing, it’s also our cultural identity that’s being taken away from us. And we will keep fighting to ensure that our identity is kept and that our graveyards of our ancestors are fully recognised by the world.”
~ Ursula Rakova, executive director of Tulele Peisa, in The Sustainable Hour no. 612
→ Subscribe to The Sustainable Hour podcast via Apple Podcasts or Spotify
Tuesday October 13 2026
Hello Friends!
Here’s the October 13 Pacific Voices for Climate Weekly with all the latest news!!
PLEASE DIARISE: OUR FINAL REHEARSAL SUNDAY OCTOBER 25 …1pm – 4pm
St Mary’s Church Hall, 23 Pyke St Bairnsdale – REFRESHMENTS served!!
and CONCERT : SUNDAY 1 NOVEMBER 2pm – 4pm
SPREAD IT AROUND TO BRING IN THE CROWDS
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We at The Sustainable Hour would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we are broadcasting, the Wadawurrung People. We pay our respects to their elders – past, present, and emerging, and extend that respect to all First Nations people.
The traditional custodians lived in harmony with the land for millennia, nurturing it and thriving in often harsh conditions. Their connection to the land was deeply spiritual and sustainable. This land was invaded and stolen from them. It was never ceded. Today, it is increasingly clear that if we are to survive the climate emergency we face, we must learn from their land management practices and cultural wisdom.
True climate justice cannot be achieved until Australia’s First Nations people receive the justice they deserve. When we speak about the future, we must include respect for those yet to be born, the generations to come. As the old saying reminds us: “We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.” It is deeply unfair that decisions to ignore the climate emergency are being made by those who won’t live to face the worst impacts, leaving future generations to bear the burden of their inaction.
“The Indigenous worldview has been marginalised for generations because it was seen as antiquated and unscientific and its ethics of respect for Mother Earth were in conflict with the industrial worldview. But now, in this time of climate change and massive loss of biodiversity, we understand that the Indigenous worldview is neither unscientific nor antiquated, but is, in fact, a source of wisdom that we urgently need.”
~ Robin Wall Kimmerer, weallcanada.org
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→ ABC News – 4 August 2018:
Lost at sea: the race against time to save the Carteret Islands from climate change
“The Carteret Islands in the Pacific were the first place in the world to require population relocations due to climate change related sea level rises.”
Landmark climate case a win for people power
In a pivotal moment for climate justice in Australia, the country’s highest court has ruled against proposals to expand a massive coal mine in New South Wales.
In what was billed a “David versus Goliath” case, retired teachers Wendy Wales and Tony Lonergan launched a legal challenge against the project after state planners gave it the go-ahead in 2022.
The pair argued that plans to extend the life of Mount Pleasant coal mine by 22 years, and double its output, flew in the face of national efforts to cut emissions. The New South Wales’ Court of Appeal agreed in 2025, declaring the project’s initial approval unlawful. It said that planners had not considered the downstream climate impact burning the coal would have in their assessment.
MACH Energy, which runs the mine, subsequently took the case to Australia’s High Court. But on Wednesday, the court struck down its appeal – a judgement that sets a legal precedent for fossil fuel approvals across Australia.
“Today the High Court said what we have always known: we cannot dig up coal, ship it overseas, watch it drive climate change, and then pretend the consequences have nothing to do with us, and won’t be felt by us,” said Wales. MACH Energy said it accepted the ruling.
Courtesy Positive News
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TRANSCRIPT
of The Sustainable Hour no. 612
António Guterres, United Nations Secretary-General: (00:00)
Humanity is speeding past the limit to avoid climate catastrophe.
Jingle: (00:14)
The Sustainable Hour. For a green, clean, sustainable Geelong: The Sustainable Hour.
Tony Gleeson: (00:24)
Welcome to The Sustainable Hour. We’d like to acknowledge that we’re broadcasting from stolen land, from the land of the Wadawurrung people. We’d like to acknowledge their elders – past, present, and those that earn that great honour in the future. The connection with our First Nations brothers and sisters is becoming more and more important as the climate crisis worsens. In nurturing both their land and their communities for millennia before their land was stolen, they accumulated a vast amount of ancient wisdom. The same ancient wisdom that has many answers for us as we face up to the climate crisis.
Mik Aidt: (01:16)
The story – our human story – keeps changing, doesn’t it? Story change! And in particular in the court system, it’s as if things are finally, finally, finally beginning to change there as well. Something I must say I have been waiting for the last 15 years. When will the courts, the judges in the courts begin to see the complete madness and injustice that is happening when we talk about the climate problem, which has become a civilisation problem, honestly.
Damsheg Upper Hunter – instagram video (01:52)
https://www.instagram.com/
Speaker 1:
Community needed a win like this, and I want to thank Damsheg and Johnson Legal, a small community group from The Hunter, led by a small legal firm who’ve just won a case in the highest court of Australia. The first time ever that a climate case has been run in the High Court of Australia. So thank you to those guys. It gives us a little bit of hope here and we are so excited to have received this win and vindication of everybody’s work.
Speaker 2: (02:23)
I have no idea for the influence on Chris Bowen or the Labor Party. We only produce 1 per cent of the world’s emissions, I keep hearing. Well, we’re 0.3 per cent of the world’s population. I mean, you include our fossil fuel exports, we’re 4.5 per cent of the world’s emissions. And we’re now, this court, this decision has made us responsible for that. I think it’ll be interesting to hear what Chris Bowen and Anthony Albanese have to say in response to this.
Speaker 3: (02:49)
We know that the system is corrupted as well by the fossil fuel donations to political parties and that sphere. wanted to say all the best to Uncle Pabai and Uncle Paul in the Torres Strait Island case. It’s terrible to see island homes destroyed in the Torres Strait and the Pacific. So we wish them well and we hope we’re all part of the same flow through. They can have the flow through from this.
Mik: (03:22)
A little instagram video clip from Damsheg Upper Hunter, the little community group that has been pushing this court case forward. And we’ll be talking, I think, more about this in The Sustainable Hour today. We’ll also be talking about what’s been happening in the Pacific or what is still happening in the Pacific. But first of all, let’s hear from our global outlook journalist Colin Mockett OAM who I’m assuming has yet another bulletin ready for us. Am I right, Colin?
Colin Mockett’s Global Outlook: (03:56)
I do. Yes, I do, Mik, and I’m covering or I’m touching on both points that you have already raised because our roundup this week begins in Parkes Place, Canberra.
That’s where Australia’s High Court last week handed down a decision that New South Wales coal mines must account for the emissions caused by their products when they’re burnt overseas.
Now “that decision was a game changer for coal production across the country.” That was a comment from Professor Jacqueline Peel at the time. She’s an international climate law expert with the University of Melbourne. The court found that under New South Wales planning laws, miners have to account for the climate damage that’s done by their pollution. In the past, this has been interpreted to focus on what is known as scope one emissions. That is, pollution created in New South Wales in the process of digging this stuff up. But now the High Court has found that miners must also account for scope three emissions, the pollution created when the coal is burned by their overseas customers.
There’s a long process to go because we know from long experience that the ruling really was the first spark of two long trails of court actions now, both for and against the climate change movement. First, there are climate activists closely reading those planning rules in other states to see if they can take down polluting mines all around Australia, if they can make it work in their own states while on the other side, highly paid lawyers will be brought in by miners and fossil fuel multinationals to begin a series of appeals that will slow the process and spread it over the next decade or so.
But now, this is something that I promised last week. It’s a look at the contenders for the UN Secretary General’s job they’ll be taking over from January the 1st next year. And its names which will be good fighters for the world environment.
The top of the list is Carolyn Rodrigues Birkett from Guyana who is the current front runner . Her background represents forest, dense and climate vulnerable regions, tying ecological preservation directly to local community rights. She has a long history in supporting the planet.
After her comes Rebeca Grynspan from Costa Rica, who was head of the UN Trade and Development, has consistently championed green economic transition frameworks.
[Editor’s note: Reuters reported Grynspan leading the informal Security Council poll on 7 October]
Then comes María Fernanda Espinosa from Ecuador. She’s known for her focus on energy security mechanisms and her experience around past COP climate summits.
They are the three that are good for the planet from the point of view if they were to become the UN Secretary General.
There are four opposing these who wouldn’t be as good. We should say that they have perhaps different priorities. They’re led by Rafael Mariano Grossi from Argentina, who wants to see the world use nuclear energy as a transitional tool, and he draws mixed responses from strict conservationists.
Then there’s Macky Sall from Senegal, whose focus on development and poverty reduction relies on oil and gas development rather than fossil fuel phase-outs.
And there are two more. Ivonne A-Baki from Ecuador. Some analysts question her stance on emissions timelines. And finally, Uganda’s Olara Otunnu tries to balance prosperity goals with climate action and is known to support fossil fuel in his own country.
That’s enough for now. That’s seven. The ones to keep an eye on are the three female leads because you bet there’s all kinds of politicking going on in UN headquarters in New York, well-funded by the fossil fuel organisation trying to get the others up.
It’s now time for a quick flip around the world, starting at Tuvalu, where, as Mik mentioned, an Australian-led meeting of world leaders was supposed to pressure global polluters to reduce carbon emissions and to keep alive efforts to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels.
Now that was all part of Australia’s deal with Turkiye to co-host the 2026 COP31 climate summit, which is happening next month. Only no world leaders showed up. Just two leaders from outside the Pacific attended: Jose Ramos-Horta from Timor Leste & Dharam Gokhool from Mauritius.
The whole shebang cost Australia more than 20 million dollars in setting up the arrangements for bringing people there. And all it really did was highlight that Australia has been again politically out-manoeuvred by Turkiye. and we also lost face with Pacific Islands nations because our Prime Minister and climate change minister actually lost face on the day by refusing to wear the traditional garland of flowers that was offered to all of the people that were there. The only two who didn’t wear them on their heads were Anthony Albanese and our environment minister.
Meanwhile in the United States, President Donald Trump said last Friday that Russian President Vladimir Putin would immediately release hundreds of thousands of tons of diesel fuel onto the global market in order to bring down the cost of diesel fuel in America. Now this not only brought widespread condemnation from climate scientists and anti-war activists, it placed the U.S. in breach of the sanctions that were applied against Russia on April the 7th by the U.S.. But that’s a sort of a normal situation for the Trump administration.
I have to report also this week that the world’s most environmental sports team, Forest Green Rovers in the United Kingdom, lost 4-2 at home to Hartlepool, meaning that it has now slipped to 16th place on the ladder.
But finally, in a week of widespread disasters and strange happenings, a major mudslide and flash flooding from torrential rains hit the affluent eastern neighbourhood of Las Condes, as in Santiago in Chile. Nobody died, only six people were injured, but roughly 2,000 luxury homes sustained various degrees of damage when raging torrents of mud, rocks and water swept away their cars, buses and street infrastructure. The insurance bills are said to be likely into the billions of US dollars.
Now this, at a time when climate change events seem to always affect the world’s poorer nations, was somehow satisfying to note that it really will hit everyone, everywhere, and it’s going to keep on that way. It may just open a few more eyes and that ends our roundup for this week.
Jingle: (12:31)
Listen to our Sustainable Hour – for the future.
Tony: (12:39)
Our guest today is Ursula Rakova. Ursula is helping her people on the Carteret Islands relocate to nearby Bougainville Island. So this is an example of the already people having to shift their homes already places where they’ve lived for centuries.
Ursula is working tirelessly to help that happen in the area around or just off New Guinea, which isn’t all that far from us. So Ursula, welcome to The Sustainable Hour.
Ursula Rakova: (13:22)
Happy to join you, Tony and everybody, thank you!
Tony: (13:26)
Let’s hear your story about what a day-to-day functioning is like for you and your Carteret Islanders.
Ursula: (13:37)
Thank you, Tony. Good morning, everybody! My name is Ursula Rakova and I’m the executive director of Tulele Peisa. Tulele Peisa in our local vernacular means “sailing the waves on our own”. And we started the organisation in 2005 and we are still going. And the main reason for establishing Tulele Peisa was basically to help the islanders chart their own destiny.
So our slogan at the moment is we are people on a journey, one voice, one desire and one destiny. And our vision is that Carteret Islanders are relocated to safe and secure locations on Bougainville so that they are culturally protected and they are living their lives sustainably.
One of the main reasons for establishing Tulele Peisa was basically because people were running out of wood due to climate change and rising sea levels where our food gardens were becoming inundated with salt water. Our wells were also becoming salty. We were not able to fetch drinking water from those wells anymore. And we could only just wash our clothes and wash dishes, but we were not able to drink from those. So we wanted our people to be survivors, to be fighters. We wanted them to be able to sustain themselves because we did not want to be a liability to the government in Bougainville and Papua New Guinea.
Colin: (15:30)
That’s very interesting, Ursula. How does the running out of wood affect you? Does that affect you more than the rising sea levels? But before that, can you tell me how many people live on your island?
Ursula: (15:45)
Okay, the Carteret Islands is made up of six little islands and in those islands we have 3,000 plus people living on those little atolls and little islands. And yeah, the shorelines are shrinking but the population is growing.
So it… It’s basically very difficult for us to grow our own food crops anymore. We lost our giant food, our giant taro in the 1980s, the mid 80s, late 80s, and we are not able to grow that crop anymore. But we are able to grow that food crop in our new location in Tinputz on mainland Bougainville.
Colin: (16:44)
Could I ask you how your power is generated on your island?
Ursula: (16:49)
The Australian government did a big effort in supplying solar kits to the atolls in Bougainville, that’s including Carteret, the Motlox, Tasman, and Feed Islands, where they supplied solar kits to the health posts, as well as schools and Family House Homes.
Colin: (17:21)
That’s good. Now why are you moving to Bougainville and are you welcomed on Bougainville Island?
Ursula: (17:32)
The move to Bougainville is a gift from the Catholic Church because in 2007, 2008, 2009, we did a major environmental, young people’s environmental speaking tour where 30 young people from the Carteret and Tinputz District got together, and they formed this team of environmental advocators where they actually traveled the some districts, five districts in Bougainville and they talked about impacts of what was happening on Carteret and made people aware on mainland Bougainville how food scarcity was causing basically a human rights environmental crisis only.
Not just on the Carteret, but on the at-hours as a whole. It is basically due to food loss. And so we needed to get our people to look at food security and how to use land in a more sustainable manner. And so… This is why the chiefs and elders of Carteret initiated the move from the island to mainland Bougainville.
Colin: (19:04)
Is that the closest land to the Carteret Islanders or just wondering why was that chosen, Bougainville Island?
Ursula: (19:15)
We do have our historical connections to Tinputz. And it’s because in our traditional times when people were migration was done because people were kind of battle systems in those times, we do have a link where one of our canoes from the island with the chief and warriors, pedalled in the big canoe to Tinputz. And from the shoreline, from the shores, they traveled up the mountain to visit friends and family in the mountains of Tinputz. And I think this journey, we kind of are now reversing this, not reversing, but we are actually reconnecting with that journey and this is why we have come into Tinputz.
It’s not because we, it’s through that connection only, it’s because of the environmental speaking tour, the bishop, the head of the Catholic Church also inviting us to come in and use the non-utilised plantation of the Catholic Church in Tinputz, Thiaruki and some other parts where the Catholic Church has big parcels of land, unused land.
Tony: (20:59)
What’s your role in this, then?
Ursula: (21:02)
Thank you. My role is basically I am the Executive Director of Tulele Peisa and I was initially asked by the chiefs and elders of the Carteret to help them with this movement. So I had to resign my job last 30 years and basically just listen to the aspirations of my elders and try to put back something for them. So this is how I mean in this scenario at the moment.
And also because I was born and bred on the island, I did my primary schooling there. I only moved away when I had to go to high school, attend high school on mainland Bougainville. And since then I’ve just started to move and move and move. And my day-to-day life is trying to talk to people within Bougainville, the elders, the government of Bougainville, the government of Papua New Guinea, and people outside who share the same aspirations, the same objectives that we on the island have. And basically my role is advocating for the cause of the Carteret Islanders.
Colin: (22:38)
Ursula, how is your work being funded? How do you raise funds for that? Do you get government support?
Ursula: (22:47)
The organisation and its program is being funded at the moment, especially the activities and the outputs are being funded by the Old Dart Foundation of UK and the Unitarian Universalist Service Committee in Oregon, USA. Those are our main funders at the moment.
The buildings and everything else on the Tinputz have been donations from the churches, churches of Australia, New Zealand, Germany and the US. The only government funding came from the Finnish government in Canberra. But no, we have not got any funding so far from the government of Papua New Guinea and Bougainville.
Colin: (23:46)
How do you physically move people to Bougainville? Do you hire a boat or do you just give them enough money to move on the plane? The whole family?
Ursula: (24:04)
Before we move our families over, we initially had to do a lot of awareness raising. We needed to also develop a policy that will guide our people in their new location. And that policy was developed on Carteret. There was a lot of counselling. There was a lot of chief exchanges between the mainland Bougainvillains and our islanders. And this is basically how our people were moved. We hired banana boats, open banana boats to pick up our families from the island to Tinputz.
Colin: (24:53)
And how many have moved already and have any come back?
Ursula: (24:58)
Initially we had the first five fathers who had to come in first and build gardens for their families and two stayed on and three moved back. Then we had another five fathers who came in after to also build gardens but they all returned. So now we have 10 new families the two that have initially stayed on and the others that have moved in because they are interested in the program.
So a lot of those families who moved back are now willing to come back, but we don’t have spaces for them anymore. And we have two new locations we need to build about 40 homes before we can bring them in.
In Tinputz, we have 17 Carteret families, 10 on site and 7 within the surrounding villages. We are also involving other women and farmers from within our host community. And so we have set up a small company where the farmers are growing cocoa.
They have this thing called and now I am looking for companies outside which we can export to. And so far we are going really well on that. And so this is why at the moment, know, like the community in Tinputz is excited because they know that we can export their cocoa and they will get something good to benefit their hard work.
Colin: (27:02)
Bougainville is under the control of Papua New Guinea government, isn’t it?
Ursula: (27:08)
Yeah, Bougainville is still a province of Papua New Guinea, but under the autonomous arrangement, it is an autonomous region.
Mik: (27:18)
Ursula, what’s the general atmosphere? What’s the mood like? How is the spirit among your people and also among yourself? Are you an optimist or are you struggling? Are you angry because this is actually the fault of not your fault? You didn’t burn all the fossil fuels that have created this situation.
Ursula: (27:38)
I think it’s a mixture of anxiety and frustration. I’m an optimistic person and I’m pretty sure my people are also optimistic about the change in their lives, especially the ones who have relocated. Actually, we have more and more people coming into our community because they know they can, do their cash crops, they can sell their cash crops and get something to sustain themselves.
And we are frustrated because we should be getting support for what we need and for what we want to actually do to progress ourselves.
But at the moment, we are stagnant and the only way we are surviving and we are making a living is through our cocoa and our cash crops, cocoa and coconut. And we are angry, but I mean, whom will we get angry with? We are not victims, we are fighters and we will continue to fight. We fight until death does me part.
I would just like to emphasise here that climate change is about human rights as well. The impact of climate change on human rights issues as well. And it’s not just the rising sea levels, it’s not just the shorelines that are decreasing, it’s also our cultural identity that’s being taken away from us.
And the only way we can keep our cultural identity is to basically push the line that we also need financial support to keep our non-economic loss and damage. And we will keep fighting to ensure that our identity is kept and that our graveyards of our ancestors are fully recognised by the world. Thank you.
. . .
SONG 1 (29:51)
‘Hush Now Little One’
Audio clip:
ABC News: “Authorities are warning Australians to stay out of the heat today as temperatures climb yet again after heat records were broken yesterday. Australia’s ongoing heat wave has been pushing temperatures to 50 degrees Celsius.”
Verse 1:
Hush now, little one, the night feels long
The world outside can seem so wrong
But here by my side, you’re safe and warm
Love still matters – yes, even more
Chorus:
You grow your roots around the stone
You’re not meant to face this all alone
The stars shine, can you hear they sing?
Even through despair, you’ll find your wings
Verse 2:
I feel the weight, I see the storm
I do my best to still keep us warm
The clouds are dark, the water’s cold
I carry you both – the young and the old
Chorus:
I grow my roots around the stone
I’m not meant to face this all alone
The stars shine, I can hear them sing
Even through despair, I’ll find my wings
Bridge:
It’s okay to cry, to feel afraid
This hurt we feel means we’re still awake
But don’t build your home in the pain you find
Let love and awe hold your mind
Chorus:
We’ll grow our roots around the stone
We’re not meant to face this all alone
The stars shine, we can hear them sing
Even through despair, we’ll find our wings
Outro:
So close your eyes, my precious one
The fight’s not over, and we’re not done
It’s a broken system, but we still belong
And only love will keep us strong
. . .
António Guterres, UN Secretary-General: (33:47)
The third great power test is the climate crisis. In many ways it’s the most profound intergenerational power imbalance of all. One generation consuming the future of the next. One group profiting while those least responsible suffer first and worst.
Three years ago in the mountains of Nepal I sounded the alarm on accelerating glacier melt, warning that the rooftops of the world are caving in. Some dismissed it all as overstating dangers. But as tragic events have shown, impacts are arriving sooner, hitting harder, and spreading further than many anticipated.
Now we face a near-certain breach of the 1.5 degree limit, with a supersized El Nino speeding straight for humanity. The dangers are real.
But so is the hope. The last decade has fuelled one of the most promising shifts in power of our time, the rise of clean energy. The sun belongs to no one. The wind cannot be embargoed. Innovation can come from everywhere. And this is profound rebalancing of power relations. Renewables are now the cheapest source of new electricity in most of the world. And the most viable path to energy security, independence and sustainable growth.
Excellencies, a future beyond fossil fuels is in sight. The question is how? Will it be a just and orderly transition built on international cooperation or chaotic and costly leaving people and countries behind?
Today I call on every government to adopt a national plan to transition away from fossil fuels aligned with 1.5°C degrees, with clear timelines and protection for affected workers and communities.
We know that fossil fuel interests won’t step aside on their own. For decades, big oil has treated the atmosphere as an open sewer and cashed in on the consequences. Since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, five major Western oil companies have pocketed nearly half a trillion dollars in profits. Compare that with just 34 billion dollars in international public adaptation finance for developing countries in the latest year reported. Meanwhile, everyday people are paying more for energy, food and insurance.
And we have seen this kind of abuse of power before. When the harms of Big Tobacco became undeniable, governments acted. And the climate crisis demands the same determination. Those who polluted the most and profited the most must do far more to repair the damage they caused. Polluters must pay!
. . .
Scott Morrison: (37:10)
This is coal! Don’t be scared. Don’t be afraid.
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse:
At the heart of this conflict is a battle between truth and science and power and lies.
ABC Climate reporter:
It is hot in the Pacific today
10 News presenter: (37:28)
It’s a scorcher in Sydney today and with temperatures soaring there are fire bans in place across the state.
10 News reporter:
As the saying goes, sun’s out, guns out. This unusual 40-degree forecast for October is no match for Sydney siders.
George Monbiot on youtube – The Exchange podcast interview: (37:46)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
We have just experienced something which is completely outside the envelope for people, my generation, I’m 63, I’ve never seen anything like it, anything like it at all in terms of these repeated heat waves, the sheer scale of them, the length of them, the temperatures reached, all this is completely anomalous. And yet we know it is just the beginning. We know that the summer we’ve just had, by comparison to those that are to come will seem cool.
What’s happening?
Well, there’s a whole branch of science now called attribution studies. And what it does is to look at what has driven these extreme weather events. again, and again, the answer is climate breakdown. Climate breakdown caused by burning fossil fuels, not just that, but also animal agriculture, land transformation. Yeah, fossil fuels is the main driver of it. And unless we get off them as quick as possible, we’re not just going to see hotter and hotter years. We’re going to see catastrophe piled upon catastrophe.
. . .
Chris Bowen interviews Matt Kean – youtube clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
Chris:
G’day, I am here with Matt Kean, the Chairman of Australia’s Climate Change Authority. Matt, of all the reasons for acting on climate change, what do you think is the thing which really spurs us to do more?
Matt Kean: (39:09)
Well, I think the risks of climate change make action necessary, but it’s the economics that are making it even more appealing. And the International Energy Agency last year, said for every one dollar invested in fossil fuels, two dollars was invested in clean energy. So capital markets have made up their minds and increasingly households have as well. Just look at your clean energy or the cheaper home battery program. that is
You don’t have to be an environmentalist to appreciate a lower energy bill and I think that is increasingly going to see more momentum towards clean technology, clean energy.
Chris: (39:47)
Even if it wasn’t for climate change and emissions, it still makes perfect economic sense,
Matt: (39:51)
Right. You don’t need to believe in climate change to believe in capitalism and that’s what we’re seeing with markets at the moment.
Chris: (39:57)
Absolutely. And you do a of work as chair of the Climate Change Authority, you look at lot of things. Is there like a technology which really gives you hope that you find exciting that’s, you know, developing around the world?
Matt: (40:10)
For me it’s electric vehicles and it’s what better batteries are making possible. Last year there were 20 million battery electric or hybrid vehicles sold globally. It’s just phenomenal. That’s one in four new cars that were battery electric or hybrid. Absolutely incredible. And what I’m excited about is Australians being able to power their cars using Australian electricity, including generated on their rooftops.
The challenge for us as policymakers, or in my case an advisor to policymakers, is to make owning an EV the practical choice. So that includes ensuring that renters and people living in the regions can access this better technology that will also be cheaper.
Chris: (40:51)
Absolutely. And there’s still climate skepticism out there, climate denial. Climate denial you can’t do much about, but those who are skeptics not sure, what do you think the best way of explaining what the world’s facing, what’s the reason for doing what we do?
Matt: (41:06)
Well, I think that ignoring risk doesn’t make it go away, and we should manage the risks that the scientists have warned us about for decades the same way we would manage any serious business risk, and that is to understand it, to manage it and to protect what’s important. And in this space it’s very clear that a warming planet will lead to more extreme and more frequent extreme weather events. We need to be able to deal with that. But we also need to be able to grab the opportunities.
And as I said, capital markets have made up their mind on this issue. Increasingly the world’s GDP has made up its mind. I think 80 per cent of the world’s GDP has committed to net zero emissions. And for a small open market economy like Australia, we’d be mad to ignore where those investment signals.
Chris: (41:57)
Absolutely. And is there one thing about the energy transition in Australia or overseas that gives you grounds for optimism?
Matt: (42:05)
For the fall in battery costs, down 90 per cent between 2010 and 2024. That’s human ingenuity showing up in the economics. And it’s not realistic to assume that human ingenuity has reached its limits. So I’m hugely optimistic about the power of human ingenuity to solve these big challenges, just like we’ve done so in the past.
Chris: (42:27)
Well, Matt, this is a massive economic transformation and I don’t care how people vote when I see someone who’s got experience like yourself wanting to help, I grab that talent. so thanks for what you do for Australia as chair of our Climate Change Authority.
Matt: (42:41)
And thank you for what you’re doing, leading this transition and helping Australia seize the enormous opportunities that await us.
Chris: (42:48)
Thanks, Matt!
. . .
Chris Bowen interviews Adair Turner from UK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
Chris:
Well, I’m here with one of the world’s foremost experts on reducing emissions, Lord Adair Turner, Chair of the Energy Transition Commission. So Adair, what are some of things you’re working on at the moment?
Adair Turner:
One of the main things we’re working on is what we call turbocharging clean electrification because I think it becomes clearer and clearer over time that the only way to get to a zero carbon global economy eventually is to electrify as much of the economy as possible and then to make sure that all of the electricity that we use is produced in a zero carbon fashion and what emerges is there are huge opportunities to electrify more and more parts of the economy and in most of them this will be reducing cost as well because of the fundamental efficiency which comes when you electrify.
Chris:
Is there any sort of particular technology or development out there that particularly excites you at the moment?
Adair:
Well, think electric vehicles are absolutely unstoppable. I think electric vehicles are going to be cheaper to buy up front than internal combustion engine vehicles. The battery technologies just get better and better over time.
But the fact that the battery technologies are getting better has also done an extraordinary thing on the production side of electricity, which is storage batteries have also collapsed in price.
Storage batteries have come down in price about 60 per cent in the course of the last three years. And we now think of solar plus batteries, I now describe it as ‘the killer app’ of the energy transition.
I think in much of what we call the global sunbelt, and we count Australia as very much part of the global sunbelt, we think solar plus battery combination is getting to the stage where it is clearly cheaper to provide round the clock electricity, electricity throughout the day and night cheaper than any fossil fuel can be. And so we still have people who deny the science of climate change and are all skeptical about that.
Chris:
What would you say to people who deny or are skeptical about climate change?
Adair: (44:54)
Well, look at your window! I mean, here you’ve had terrible droughts, you’ve had heat waves, you’ve had wildfires, we’ve had extraordinary floods – for instance in Spain: floods – in Pakistan: killed lots of people.
I think it’s absolutely clear that we are seeing exactly what the scientists told us we will see and what we’re seeing so far is that 1.5 degrees centigrade of warming above pre-industrial levels. That is what is producing the weather events that we’re seeing around the world.
And with every 0.1 degrees centigrade of extra warming, it’s going to get worse and worse and worse.
To me, the science is absolutely clear. It’s been completely validated. And there is very, very big harm to human welfare coming. And every time we look at it, we find that, you know, there are some sectors of the economy where it will cost us something to decarbonise. Not so much in the ones that we can electrify, but bits of heavy industry are a bit more expensive to decarbonise.
But all the costs of decarbonisation are very, very small compared with the costs of inaction of allowing this climate change to occur.
Chris:
And you’re visiting us from the United Kingdom. In Australia, people say we’re only 1 per cent of emissions. It doesn’t count. I’ve seen in United Kingdom, people say we’re only 1 per cent of emissions. Does it count? If you’re 1 per cent of emissions a day, does it count?
Adair:
Well, of course it does. The way I sometimes think about it is I’m only one citizen among lots of others in London. So what does it matter if I chuck litter on the street?
Chris:
Or don’t pay taxes.
Adair:
Or don’t pay taxes. But the answer is, you know, I’m one among other citizens. you know, everybody’s only ‘1 per cent’. I mean, China, of course, is, you know, 20 per cent overall. But any one province of China could say ‘I’m only 1 per cent’. And any one state of the US could say ‘I’m only 1 per cent’.
I think we have to get away from that thinking. We do have a common responsibility. But also there’s lots of opportunities, of economic opportunities, to invest in these clean technologies and grasp the economic opportunities that comes with that.
And the countries that are like 30 per cent, 20 per cent like China, they are actually doing a lot as well.
Well, China is doing an enormous amount. China, by the way, if we go back to electrification, is way ahead of people on electrification. China in 2025, or thereabouts, had about 10 per cent of its energy came from electricity which was behind Europe, U.S., Australia which were in the low 20s. China’s now about 31 per cent of all its energy is coming from electricity because it has made a bet that the future is electric and it’s a winning bet and it’s off the back of that but it is developing the technologies of the views the technologies of solar panels etc. So they have made the correct bet. The future is going to be electric.
Chris:
Last question. Are you an optimist or a pessimist and why?
Adair:
There’s a lot of reasons why you might be pessimistic at the moment. I mean, you know, Donald Trump has not helped in this debate. The temperatures continue to go up. The thing that makes me above all optimistic is the technologies. If you look at what has happened on solar costs, solar PV costs have come down 95 per cent in the last 15 years. In last 50 years, they’ve come down 99.9 per cent. Solar PV costs a thousandth of what it did 50 years ago. We’ve also seen these amazing cost reductions in batteries. Human innovation is what will solve this problem and I think it’s solving it, know, it’s giving us the tools to solve it quite fast.
Chris:
Adair Turner, great to have you in Australia. Thank you.
Clip from ABC News on 7 October 2026:
ABC News reader Joe: (48:44)
What do you say to politicians like Barnaby Joyce who say stopping projects like this means a lot less revenue for governments from royalties and a lot less money in the kitty for things like the NDIS?
Anita O’Hart:
Yeah, I mean… It’s an argument often used to scare people from taking action now. But when you actually put in the real costs of climate change. The real costs to the mums and dads, the people who can’t afford assurance/insurance, the people who are losing their homes, our Pacific neighbours who are losing whole countries. What we’re not talking about is the short term profit for a few people versus an assessment of the real costs to all Australians.
Joe:
Anita O’Hart, thanks so much for coming in and having a chat too.
Anita: (49:33)
Thank you for having me.
. . .
SONG 2 (49:41) – audio
‘In Service to Life’
Spoken words:
The Gentle Manifesto: Power must serve life. And our laws must defend the living world. Technology must support life on Earth. And be in service to life.
Verse 1:
They said it would save me hours
Give me back a little space
While I’m searching for an answer
you’re still waiting face-to-face
There’s a blackbird at the window
There’s a question in your eyes
I put my phone down on the table
and say: I’ll stay here by your side
Chorus:
The world we’re making?
Oh no, it’s making us
Through the stories we tell
and the things we trust
With our feet upon the Earth
And curiousity? A must!
This is power: when we act
in service to life
In service to life…
Verse 2:
Underneath the cloud there’s copper
There is water, there is heat
Machines working through the night
Behind the answers on my screen
Look beyond the promise
Who will benefit from this
Who gets handed all the power?
And who gets left to pay the bill?
Chorus:
The world we’re making?
Oh no, it’s making us
Through the stories we tell
and the things we trust
With our feet upon the Earth
And curiousity? A must!
This is power: when we act
in service to life
Spoken words:
You don’t have to wait for someone else to become the adult in the room. As the Men and Women of Earth we rise into responsibility. With gentleness and humility. But also with with courage and honesty.
Bridge:
Those who haven’t yet been born
will be the ones who have to pay
Bring the people to the table
Let their assemblies have a say
Chorus:
The world we’re making?
Oh no, it’s making us
Through the stories we tell
and the things we trust
With our feet upon the Earth
And curiousity? A must!
This is power: when we act
in service to life
Spoken words:
The world we’re making
is making us
The rich and powerful seek to protect their own
ever more ruthlessly
Climate change impacts continue to exact their toll financially, lifestyle, mentally
This is why we need this – a story
a spiritual re-orientation
Chorus:
The world we’re making?
Oh no, it’s making us
Through the stories we tell
and the things we trust
With our feet upon the Earth
And curiousity? A must!
This is power: when we act
in service to life
Spoken words:
The old gentleman was recognised by his status. The NEW gentle man is recognised by his service. His service to life.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Events we have talked about in The Sustainable Hour
Events in Victoria
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