Podcast: Download (Duration: 54:23 — 50.2MB)
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | RSS | More
The Sustainable Hour no. 598 | Transcript | Podcast notes
Our guest in the 598th episode of The Sustainable Hour is Nadia Scheffer, a blue economy entrepreneur based in Cape Town, South Africa.
In this episode, we travel from a small renewable-powered village in Germany to the kelp forests of South Africa – and ask what becomes possible when communities stop waiting for permission and start building the future themselves.
. . .
We begin with anger – the justified anger many Australians feel when the power bill arrives. But Mik Aidt asks a sharper question: who should that anger be aimed at?
The answer, he argues, is not net zero, not renewable energy, and not the green transition. The real issue is ownership, power and who benefits. In the German village of Feldheim, local people own their renewable energy system. They have wind, solar, biogas, batteries, a local heating network and their own electricity grid. The result is cheaper, more secure energy – and money staying in the community.
It is a very different story from the one Australians are often told by politicians who call renewables a hoax or claim net zero is “running the country down”. Feldheim shows something else: when communities are included rather than pushed aside, renewable energy can become local security, local income and local pride.
. . .
Colin Mockett OAM then takes us through his global roundup, beginning with the new era of deadly heat now unfolding across the planet. Heatwaves are no longer isolated weather events. They are becoming longer, hotter and more dangerous – and they hit the poorest and most exposed people hardest. Colin also reflects on the role of journalism: in 2026, reporting extreme heat without explaining the climate connection is no longer defensible.
He then turns to Australia’s gas industry, where projected revenue increases are being reported as a business opportunity, while the climate consequences of burning that gas are too often left out of the story. Finally, Colin brings a bright note from the Australian transport sector: electric vehicle sales are continuing to surge, with BYD and Tesla reaching striking new sales figures.
. . .
What if some of the answers to the climate crisis are washing up on our beaches? Our guest in this episode is Nadia Scheffer, a blue economy entrepreneur based in Cape Town, South Africa. Nadia’s journey into seaweed began with a simple walk on the beach in 2015, when she noticed kelp washing ashore and wondered what could be made from it. She did not come from a science background. Curiosity led the way.
Since then, she has become deeply involved in the emerging global seaweed industry – a field full of promise, frustration, creativity and difficult questions. Seaweed can be used in bioplastics, biofibres, biostimulants, animal feed, food, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals and even construction materials. It is already present in everyday products many of us use without realising it.
Nadia explains that South Africa’s kelp species, Ecklonia maxima, is highly sought after internationally. But she is not interested in simply exporting raw material and watching others capture the value. Her focus is local value-adding: processing seaweed close to the ocean, building local industry, and making sure coastal communities benefit from the resource.
That is one of the strongest themes of the conversation. Seaweed is not just another raw material to be extracted. It is part of the foundation of marine ecosystems. Any industry built around it has to learn from nature rather than repeat the old extractive business model.
As Nadia says, the story of seaweed is still stronger than the numbers. Many applications are still in early research and development. Investors often hesitate because nature does not behave like a machine, and because seaweed farming and processing need patience, regulation, science and long-term thinking. But the potential is huge.
Our conversation explores:
• why kelp and seaweed are attracting global attention
• how seaweed can replace fossil-based materials in some products
• why bioplastics, biofibres and biostimulants are so promising
• why local processing matters for Africa’s coastal economies
• how seaweed farming works in practice
• why some kelp forests are thriving while others are dying as oceans warm
• how seaweed may contribute to carbon storage and biodiversity protection
• why the industry must avoid becoming another extractive economy
Nadia also points to inspiring examples from around the world, including seaweed-based packaging, cosmetics made with seaweed farmers in Zanzibar, integrated aquaculture systems, and Australian research into seaweed that can reduce methane from cattle.
Her message at the end of the Hour is simple and powerful: Be curious
“We’ve created systems in the world that we’ve forgotten we created,” she says. “We just need a bit of curiosity to rethink the system. It’s not rocket science. We don’t have to go to Mars. We just need to be curious about what else is doable.”
→ Learn more about Nadia’s projects on: seaweedsouthafrica.com
→ The international Seaweed Coalition: safeseaweedcoalition.org
. . .
NEW SONG
The episode ends with the new original song ‘Become Planetary Guardians’, including the voice of former Irish Prime Minister Mary Robinson speaking as an oak tree, calling on humanity to give the living planet a voice in every room where decisions are made.
Become Planetary Guardians | Lyrics
– An upbeat climate-action pop anthem about ordinary people becoming “planetary guardians” by choosing integrity, clean energy and collective courage over fear and political spin.
→ More songs from The Sustainable Hour
. . .
Be curious. Be brave enough to ask who owns the system. And remember: the sea may hold more answers than we have yet imagined.
“With seaweed, using the broad term from all the different species, the sky’s the limit of the applications. You’re looking at bioplastics, biofibers, biostimulants and food applications. It’s like a baseline ingredient that’s used in a variety of industries that you wouldn’t necessarily even think there would be ingredients for it. Like for instance in your toothpaste. So yeah, most people have already consumed seaweed and products that they’re not even aware of.”
~ Nadia Scheffer, seaweed pioneer and entrepreneur
→ Subscribe to The Sustainable Hour podcast via Apple Podcasts or Spotify
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
We at The Sustainable Hour would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we are broadcasting, the Wadawurrung People. We pay our respects to their elders – past, present, and emerging, and extend that respect to all First Nations people.
The traditional custodians lived in harmony with the land for millennia, nurturing it and thriving in often harsh conditions. Their connection to the land was deeply spiritual and sustainable. This land was invaded and stolen from them. It was never ceded. Today, it is increasingly clear that if we are to survive the climate emergency we face, we must learn from their land management practices and cultural wisdom.
True climate justice cannot be achieved until Australia’s First Nations people receive the justice they deserve. When we speak about the future, we must include respect for those yet to be born, the generations to come. As the old saying reminds us: “We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.” It is deeply unfair that decisions to ignore the climate emergency are being made by those who won’t live to face the worst impacts, leaving future generations to bear the burden of their inaction.
“The Indigenous worldview has been marginalised for generations because it was seen as antiquated and unscientific and its ethics of respect for Mother Earth were in conflict with the industrial worldview. But now, in this time of climate change and massive loss of biodiversity, we understand that the Indigenous worldview is neither unscientific nor antiquated, but is, in fact, a source of wisdom that we urgently need.”
~ Robin Wall Kimmerer, weallcanada.org
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
TRANSCRIPT
of The Sustainable Hour no. 598
António Guterres, United Nations Secretary-General: (00:00)
Cooperation over chaos. We are all in this together.
Jingle: (00:16)
The Sustainable Hour. For a green, clean, sustainable Geelong: The Sustainable Hour.
Tony Gleeson: (00:25)
Welcome to The Sustainable Hour podcast. We’d like to acknowledge that we’re broadcasting from the land of the Wadawurrung people. We pay tribute to their elders – past, present, and those who earn that great honour in the future. We acknowledge that this is going out in NAIDOC week. We had Professor Mark Rose on last week talking about the importance of us using the accumulated wealth of ancient wisdom that they’ve gathered by nurturing both their land and their communities for millennia before their land was stolen. That always was and always will be First Nations land.
Mik Aidt: (01:11)
You’re right to be angry about your power bill, how it’s gone up and up, and you’re right to be angry about the cost of living. Like, just a cup of coffee now is seven dollars in many of the cafes!
But what I don’t understand is why don’t you ask who should I be angry at? Who is profiting from this? And who is laughing all the way to the bank at the moment?
Politicians trying to scare you about net zero, which is something they say is running our country down, and they want you to believe that renewables are a hoax and that it’s just some sort of a an expensive fantasy which is being pushed by inner city latte drinking elites. But once more, take a look at this claim. Give me a moment, because I would like to talk about a small village in Germany called Feldheim.
It’s a village of about 130 people. And it’s not some trendy city suburb with latte drinking greenies. No, this is a rural village in Germany, with farmers, local families, ordinary people. And what did they do? They built their own renewable energy system with wind turbines and solar panels and a biogas plant which is using the local farm waste. And of course some batteries. A local heating network. And they have their own electricity grid. And what did they get out of doing that?
These 130 residents in Feldheim now pay around 19 cents per kilowatt hour for their electricity. 19 cents. That’s about half of what most Australian households here pay for our electricity. So next time you hear a politician tell you that renewables are expensive, how about you ask them: ‘Hmm, how come the people in Feldheim pay half of what we Australians are paying?’
And what you should probably then be asking yourself is why did those people in Germany choose to become energy independent? When someone tells you that local people get nothing out of this green energy transition, maybe you should ask them huh who owns the system and where does the money go? Who’s benefiting? That is the real question to ask.
Because in Germany, in Feldheim, it’s the citizens who own the energy system. The real choice we have is between an old energy system where we ordinary people keep paying our bills to large companies and a new system where we communities, farmers, households, small businesses and so locals own the system and in that way we are all becoming part of the solution.
That’s what Feldheim shows us. That’s what happens when community is brought in rather than pushed aside as we see it happening here in Australia. The energy is produced locally, the money stays local. So the bills are half price and the supply is more secure. When gas prices went up and up in Europe because of the war in Ukraine, in Feldheim the energy prices didn’t go anywhere. They stayed where they were, unchanged.
Energy security will not come from digging up more coal or drilling for more gas. Energy security means using what we here in Australia have in abundance the sun, the wind, land and skills. We have the engineers, electricians, and the rooftops.
So I suggest – like Pauline Hanson says – we should get ideology out of the way and look at the numbers and the facts. And it’s now a fact that all around the world new solar and wind are cheaper than new fossil fuel power generation. Here in Australia we have our own energy market operators saying that the cheapest path forward is renewable energy. That’s not green ideology. That’s system planning.
And sure, that transition costs some money. It does. Every piece of new infrastructure costs money. When we build new roads, it costs, new hospitals. Or if we build a new coal plant, that costs money too, or nuclear power for that matter.
The fossil fuel companies would have picked our pockets in the tune of an extra six hundred and ninety billion dollars if we didn’t have renewables. In other words, we’ve saved almost seven hundred billion dollars last year just because of renewable energy.
So this ‘net zero thing’ is not something ‘being done to us’, as Pauline Hansen talks about. It’s actually something that we need. So when you’re thinking about what things cost, yeah, sure, stay angry, but aim your anger at the right target, please. You could be angry that Australia has so much free sunshine and there’s so many people who can’t afford their power bills. You could be angry that communities are being shut out of decisions that affect their land.
You could be angry that energy companies are making profit, angry that Canberra politicians are turning energy policy into some culture war, telling you that renewables are a hoax. There’s a lot to be angry about for sure. But the answer is not to kill the green transition. The answer is to make it fairer, smarter, more local, more democratic. Just like they did in Feldheim in Germany.
We have to stop letting this anger be against our own future. You’re right to be angry about these power bills and the cost of living, but you also need to be angry at politicians who think they can get away with lying.
In America they have Trump. He gets away with it, yes. We don’t need another Trump here in Australia, honestly. We have to demand that politicians stop lying to us. And you would think that would have been the most natural job for the media people, the journalist who sat and listened to Pauline Hansen when she spoke at the press club the other week. And then when it got to Q&A time, what did they do? Nothing. Not a single journalist held her to account. No one confronted her with the facts.
But at least here in The Sustainable Hour, we do like, and as most of our listeners know, every week we deliver a smorgasbord of global scientific findings for you and the story about what’s actually going on out there in the real world, the fast moving real world, which is important. Over to Colin Mockett OAM, who has once again been keeping a sharp eye on the facts that are cropping up beyond our Aussie horizon and what do you have on the smorgas menu today, Colin?
Colin Mockett’s Global Outlook (08:23)
Well, thank you, Mik. Yes, and that all… That rant serves as an introduction because it fits in perfectly with our roundup for this week, which begins in Geneva at the headquarters of the World Health Organization. Now that’s a branch of the UN, of which every nation of the world is a member. The WHO released a paper last week that was headlined that the world is entering a new era of heat.
It described global emergency that is already killing people, straining societies, but most surprisingly, it pointed the finger of blame at the world’s journalists for the way that global media reports extreme weather. The paper began with the deadly heat that has been sweeping across Europe.
The WHO figures estimate that at least 1,300 people have died across Europe so far, as countries such as France and Germany have endured some of the hottest temperatures they’ve ever recorded. But Europe is not an isolated case. North America is now facing similar danger. Around 250 million Americans are experiencing dangerous heat waves.
With temperatures comparable to those recently seen in Europe. And Europe is expected to face another round of extreme heat before September.
The briefing made clear that this is not a regional weather problem. It’s a global climate problem. From North Africa to South America, Asia, China, Japan, and Korea are all experiencing their hottest summers on record.
In May, India was home to 97 of the world’s 100 hottest cities, with temperatures between 45°C and 48°C degrees. It’s almost beyond thinking about. These are not just uncomfortable numbers, they’re conditions that threaten human survival, especially for people engaged in outdoor work. This is what the report said.
In India, roughly three quarters of their workforce, that’s around 380 million people, work in heat exposed sectors, such as agriculture and construction. For these workers, extreme heat is a daily physical threat. It affects their ability to earn a living, to stay healthy, and to simply survive. One of the most important points from the paper was that the heat is not experienced equally. Wealthier people can retreat indoors, turn on air conditioning or adjust their work days. Poorer workers, outdoor labourers, elderly people, children, people with health conditions and those living in poorly insulated homes face much greater risks. Extreme heat reveals social inequality as much as it reveals rising temperatures.
Then it said – and I’m still talking about the WHO report – then it said that journalists have a direct role to play in saving lives. Civic-minded reporting could help people understand the risks, it said, by telling how to stay safe and recognise when heat has become dangerous.
It said that journalism could help shape how people prepare for and respond to extreme weather, and that means providing timely, accurate and practical information. Who is most at risk? Where cooling areas are located, how to recognise heat stress, what employers should do to protect workers and what authorities are doing or failing to do to protect their people.
But then the report urged the best reporting should go further. It must explain why this heat is happening. Now here it was blunt. It was the media’s duty to report that burning fossil fuels has overheated the planet, it said. As a result, heat waves are becoming hotter, longer and more frequent.
The planet has already warmed by about 1.4 degrees Celsius, and this level of warming is enough to produce deadly consequences. Scientists warn that temperatures will keep rising until humanity phases out the burning of fossil fuels. The report held its heaviest criticism for news reporting extreme heat without mentioning that it was due to climate change.
Given the state of climate science in 2026, the paper said, leaving out the climate connection is no longer defensible journalism.
Now with this in mind, the Age reported this week that Australia’s biggest gas producers are poised to cash in on an expected 18 billion dollars revenue surge over the next year. This is due to the fallout from the Iran War.
This was reported in The Age’s business section saying that it intensified calls for the government to levy a twenty five percent tax on their exports. The report made no mention of the effect of the world’s climate that the eventual burning of that gas will have.
The article said that before the outbreak of the war on February 28, the Australian government had announced to or had anticipated a sharp decline in LNG export income from producers in Queensland, WAN, their Northern Territory.
Official forecasters have projected a revenue dropping of about $50 billion in the 2027 financial year due to oversupply and a declining market. But instead, the latest government projections released last week revealed that liquefied natural gas or LNG revenue is now expected to climb from 47 billion in the 2026 financial year to 65 billion in 2027, an increase of 18 billion dollars compared to their prior forecast.
Now that was reported as an extra profit for the gas companies, not as affecting the atmosphere. But scientists estimate that burning that gas would produce between 57 to 78 million tons of carbon dioxide emissions, which would equal the entire emissions of a medium-sized country the size of Austria, or the annual emissions from operating 18 coal-fired power plants.
Now I found those figures once I realised how much gas was going to be coming up for 18 billion dollars. It wasn’t reported in the age article at all. They simply commented about the money.
Now finally, the surge of electric vehicles in Australia continues despite fuel prices levelling out and going back to pre Iran war levels. The Chinese car company BYD recorded selling an astonishing eighteen thousand eight hundred and eighty one vehicles in June. Now that’s up from eight thousand two hundred and eleven in May.
Tesla sold 8,670 vehicles too, a new record. Altogether, more than 140,000 new cars were bought in Australia during June. Almost half 49.8 per cent were electrified. And that small piece of good news ends our roundup for the week.
. . .
Jingle (17:16)
Listen to our Sustainable Hour – for the future.
Tony: (17:23)
Our guest today is Nadia Scheffer. Nadia is a blue economy entrepreneur based in Cape Town, South Africa. For the past decade she’s been investigating the potential of kelp and seaweed to transform the economy of her country. Along the way she has observed some interesting dynamics of the global seaweed industry. So Nadia, tell us how you got involved in this industry, your background, your influences, and see where that takes us.
Nadia Scheffer: (18:01)
Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. My story is a little bit of an unusual one. So not coming from a science or biology background. and it’s a bit hard to describe why I’m completely obsessed. It’s past just the fascination by this point, just obsessed with seaweed and kelp. So in 2015 I came down on holiday to Cape Town before moving down in 2017. grew up in Pretoria, which is in the middle of the country, no ocean around.
And while on holiday walking on the beach, noticing something that I wasn’t even sure what it was, and it was a lot of it washing up on the beach. so that was the kelp that I saw… and who knows why, I just became curious about it and thought like I wonder if you can make stuff out of this, and you know you’re onto something new when Google can’t tell you how to do it. So in 2015 googling anything seaweed kelp oriented, didn’t find much information.
And then by the time I moved down to Cape Town in 2017, I was driving around in the city more and noticing how much of the kelp washes up on the beach. and by 2018, 2019, I started experimenting with it. And even in that gap between the time when I started Googling around again, there was more products on the international side popping up.
Some Danish designers created a chair out of out of kelp, like mushing it up and creating furniture out of it and a lady called Julia Lohman made these amazing installations where she stretches the seaweed into these panels.
So, yeah, and then just started playing Mad Scientist. Just experimenting with it and my earrings is and, yeah, had the honour of sending a pair home with Prince William after meeting him at the Earthshot Prize.
So, yeah, it’s been a very long meandering journey, and just going in different different directions, different rabbit holes of seeing what’s doable in the in the international space around it.
And one of the elements of the international, the global seaweed industry that fascinates me the most is that whether you setting up a startup in Africa, America, Europe, in the seaweed space, you’re all on the same page. The issues are the same. So it’s regulation, legislation, and then the conundrum of the funding.
Because, I mean, with seaweed, just take using the broad term from all the different species, the sky’s the limit of the applications. You’re looking at bioplastics, biofibers, biostimulants, food applications. It’s like a baseline ingredient that’s that’s used in a variety of industries that you wouldn’t necessarily even think there would be ingredients for for it. Like for instance in your toothpaste. So yeah, most people have already consumed seaweed and products that they’re not even aware of.
Mik: (21:08)
When you say plastic, bio plastic, what’s that? And does it work? Is it already available?
Nadia: (21:15)
One of the big forerunners in in that space, also linked to the Earthshot Prize is Notpla. They’re based in the in the UK and they’re basic making a type of like film that that coats the containers in the like the fast food industry. so I mean it it is still a lot of early stage development around it. and I think when you’re looking at a bioplastic, one of the challenges is to extend the period before it starts degrading.
So yeah, so you’ve got not plough that’s that’s quite prominent, sway as another one. and then there’s a very interesting one actually down in your hood, Uluu, (www.uluu.com.au) which I’ve only recently stumbled on. So they’re based… I think it’s in Tas at Tasmania, so U L U U, and they use a very unique fermentation process to also make bioplastic from. And I’d – just this week – I saw that they on track with their scaling to get to a a commercial level.
So there’s a there’s a lot of exciting movement in the industry, but it’s seen as early stage. and be because you you’re moving into new R&D, it’s still like a long while to get it very commercialised and very established and at the moment, most traditional venture capitalists, don’t want to touch it yet. Because you’re working with a nature solution. So there’s no complete guarantees. and then you get into the conundrum with climate change affecting a lot of the kelp forests around the world.
In South Africa we’re lucky we’re in one of the natural upwelling zones. So our kelp is actually doing doing perfectly fine with the more turmoil, but it means the intensity of the storms is is more yeah, like we we just recently had a big one that devastated the coastline. And then on the opposite side on California, the kelp forests are dying off because of the heating of the of the ocean.
Tony: (23:33)
No, do you think because of that where they’re thriving, is that the correct word, in off your country and not doing so well in others? I think in parts of Tasmania where they’ve they’ve grown freely for decades, millennia probably, they’re dying off. Do you think there’s an attitude to to have your country specialising in that, in seaweed products?
Nadia: (24:01)
Yeah, so so our local species Ecklonia Maxima is s sorely sought after by China. so when when I just got into the space and you know fixing up my LinkedIn, not even having a website where I, you know, claim to be able to export big quantities, I had a Chinese businessman contacting me looking for ten containers of the Ecklonia Maxima per month.
So one of the big challenges, and this is like globally with seaweed, is the loss of moisture. So when you’re looking at the dry, the wet mass going to the dry mass, that’s where things get sticky with with scaling things up. ‘Cause depending on the species you’re looking for, up to eighty, even ninety percent of moisture loss. So for a container, you know. You have to scale that up. at the moment our wild harvesting is still done very sustainably. You’ve got big companies like CalPAC and Africa help working with the biostimulant products, and they’ve been in the in the space since the nineteen seventies. So they basically use a system where in their designated area, they’ll start harvesting on the one side and then almost using like zebra stripes going through their zone and looping back again.
And it can take up to two years for them to to work through that zone. And by the time they come back, it’s ready for harvest again. So one of the big elements that I want to establish in South Africa and and we’re working on other African countries as well, is doing the local value add. Because at the moment we’re exporting the raw material out to China, and they they’re doing the extraction method and we’re actually importing the alginet, which is the gooey inside of the product that’s been used in a very wide range of industries. So you’re looking at food production, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, even in the construction industry, depending on what kind of grade of the product you’re working with, that extraction can be done locally.
I just recently partnered with a European company that’s working on a system doing a biorefinery method where we’re going to be bringing the processing of the kelp and the seaweed as close as possible to the ocean to make sure that we get all of the wide range of compounds from the from the seaweed and the kelp.
Tony: (26:34)
And its capacity to draw down carbon, like seaweed generally, is that is that seen as a big plus for the industry as well?
Nadia: (26:45)
It depends on which species you’re harvesting. So for instance the kelp its basically like just cutting grass. So the main part of the plant will always remain there and you’re just using the top part which grows really fast. Depending on the species, some of the giant kelp which our Ecklonia Maxima falls under ,can grow up to half a meter per day.
So it’s literally the fastest growing plant on the planet. So it’s like you can call it sea bamboo, same as with land bamboo, it grows really fast. So you will struggle to find a more sustainable resource. and because there’s so many applications to it, it’s really an exciting space. but with the carbon sequestering the science is still very early stage. And to quantify to see exactly how much is sequestered, the yeah it’s still being investigated. But I think especially with the kelp species where you’re only taking the top part of the plant and most of the plants remain stable, it’s definitely a space for sequestering. The other side is the biodiversity credits as well, which in Namibia Kelp Blue is is one of the big forerunners with that investigating how to kind of add that onto the operations.
Mik: (28:13)
Just take us through what does it mean to grow kelp? Because you know we understand how we we we know how farmers go out in the field and they you know drop some seeds and plants come up but how do you do it underwater? Is it boats going out and a are divers going down? How does it actually work? What does it look like?
Nadia: (28:33)
So when when I initially got on to the idea of just cultivating it as well, because that is the next phase, especially with our industry as well, with the demand growing so much we feel the cultivation is inevitable to be the next phase. I was kind of like, How difficult can it be to grow the plants? You just you know, like you thinking, just, you know, drop it in and there it goes.
But some of the species are easier than others. some you can cultivate with just like a little you break a little piece off, you tie it onto a rope, you put it into the ocean and it just takes over. But the other ones, for instance, like our kelp, there’s a big lab component in it. So the seaweed or the kelp works with spores that are released. So they actually take a little piece of the kelp and they like induce it, like release the sperm, well, the spores, sorry not sperm – the spores and then from there they have to nurse it in the lab conditions for quite a while. at the moment mostly it’s done with the sea line concept where you have like this a type of string or a rope where you want the kelp or the seaweed to latch onto it.
No, they do the sugar kelp, on the American coastline in a similar way where you then wait for it to be stable in the lab and then you take it out to the ocean.
speaker-3 (30:00.238)
you
speaker-0 (30:01.13)
You mentioned before the fact that seaweed in some countries is dying. How general is that? I guess that’s because of sea temperatures.
Nadia: (30:11.776)
Yeah. that that is quite like and I know along the Australian side, it’s something that they’re monitoring quite a bit. I know on the American side it’s also that something that is is getting into a concern. There are some people investigating what kind of science to use to to counter that. I know Brian von Hertzen, I think it’s it… What I’m trying to remember is their company name now.
So they’ve got a system where they can mimic what naturally happens for us with the trouble when the nutrient rich water is at the bottom and it needs to be circulated up. So that’s why South Africa and Namibia and there’s a yeah there’s five spots around the globe that works on that system where it naturally circulates the nutrients, especially along the American coastline, that top layer is becoming so stagnant, and with the ocean temperatures fluctuating so much, the yeah, the kelp is really struggling.
Tony: (31:22)And what potential development excites you the most a around seaweed?
Nadia: (31:29)
I think just accelerating a lot of the R&D, so just getting out of the loop of needing the grant funding to keep the industry going. ’cause that at the moment is most people’s space of needing yet another application to you know keep the wheels going. I think the R&D of just all of these applications that are doable.
I would say the biostimulants is is one of the big fields that everybody is focusing on at the moment, specifically also with the tie into agriculture. The bioplastic is also is also quite quite exciting. And I think the biofibres as well. The food production: Changing people’s palate to eat the kelp and the seaweed is quite a challenge.
Like, in South Africa there are some chefs that play around with the kelp but it’s a very acquired taste if you’re not processing it into the food and almost using it as ingredient that people aren’t aware of. So so yeah, I think the food side is also showing a lot of promise. I know in the European context there’s a lot of research into one of the other species called Ulva, which is sea lettuce, and there’s a project called ‘wheat of the sea”, which is exploring you know what can be done with the Ulva. One of the big developments around that is a protein extract.
So yeah, the sky’s the limit. I kind of come came up with the saying tongue in cheek: ‘Whatever the question, seaweed is the answer.’ And it’s not exaggerating, it’s like a very, very versatile ingredient or yep, substance that can be used in various industries.
Mik: (33:28)
It sounds funny when you say the sky is the limit, the sea is the limit.
Nadia: (33:32)
There you go, there you go. One of the challenges around the industry is that you’re working with the foundation of the ecosystem. So you can’t use the traditional business models of extraction on the kelp and the seaweed. So that’s something for me that and it’s it’s interesting. the people that are drawn to the industry are not the typical business minds of you know, as much profit as possible. For me, one of the main reasons why I’ve remained passionate about the industry is to know that this can genuinely make a dent in the fight against climate change. I mean if you if you’re looking for instance at the biostimulants and the biofertilisers, as soon as you are replacing the negative or the bad industries with with a new nature solution, you’re already making a big dent there.
Around the American coastline, ironically like the kelp forest there is struggling, but because of all the nutrients that’s washing into the ocean because of the agriculture over using the fertiliser, they have the sargassum blooms. Don’t know if you guys have seen any any of those images of how much of it washes up.
Tony: (34:51)
Yeah, that results in mass kills of fish and other sea critters.
Nadia: (34:58)
Yeah, so that’s for instance, one of the conundrums with seaweed. so that the name is if you know, is there for a reason. If it under the perfect circumstance it grows as a weed. so the Sargassum is one of the examples of just seeing what the negative side of you know, too many different elements of the ecosystem not not lining up. ‘Cause with that one, it’s also a combination of the nutrients in the water and all of a sudden the water temperature’s changing. So some species will will struggle with that and other other species will thrive.
Mik: (35:40)
So Nadia, it sounds to me like really there’s a big solution to a serious problem that humanity is facing with the climate. And yet it’s going a bit slow, isn’t it? I mean I’ve heard about kelp for for more than a decade as a solution, but you’re still talking about RD research and development. Why is it you know we have Elon Musk so interested in getting us to Mars? Why is Elon Musk not investing in kelp?
Nadia: (36:09)
That would be amazing to get him on the, yeah, like, heads up on that one. I think it is because you’re working with nature, so it’s not a guarantee. There’s so much potential, even like if you for instance, the species Ulva can be cultivated on land. Where with that one, especially for food production, you need a system where you have one hundred percent control over the whole system.
So in South Africa some of the big productions around that are done with the abalone industry where they use a system called IMTA. So it’s integrated multi tropic aquaculture where you basically just replicating what happens in nature. I mean if you go out now into any garden or any forest, like you don’t see just one species operating on its own. Everything’s connected. It works together and you know the science is there. it’s a good question why are the bigger honchos like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos not taking notice yet? It’s I think Jeff Bezos might have, if I remember correctly, he was involved potentially in some aquaculture in the Netherlands with wind farms there as well. I I haven’t kept track of that. So he’s at least starting to pay a little bit of attention.
Elon Musk is a bit of an export of my country, I would say. I think he’s such a mixed bag. Depending on who you’re gonna talk to, some people will say he’s a genius and other people will say he’s gone in the wrong direction. It’s unfortunate that we I want to say like money is not the problem. We have the money and the financing available. It’s just you know having that switch of pure capitalism of you know like making as much money and as quickly as possible versus you know just looking at that holistic picture around it. I mean that’s especially in the African context as well, seaweed farming and kelp has got so much potential for like just increasing the livelihoods of of people. One of my… She’s like my seaweed superstar to always mention in that context, Clara Schade – making beauty products in Zanzibar with the seaweed farmers there. So there the in Tanzania the industry has been established for the last 30 years. But the trouble is you’ve got the raw material going out and someone else seeing all the benefits down the line. So Clara like took that business model, toppled it on its head, and with her system, she’s increasing the livelihoods of the of the seaweed farmers, like predominantly female, by nine hundred percent. And that’s just her not wanting to exploit her workers and make the most money as quick as possible. Using her product as an example, you know, it’s very, very high end bespoke cosmetics that you can’t just put on the shelf and be like, okay, you know, compete with L’Oreal, compete with Revlon. I realise at the moment the story of seaweed is stronger than the numbers, if that makes sense.
Tony: (39:35)
Yeah. And it seems like that would bring if Clara, her approach to business is the opposite to what the approach to business that’s got us into the mess that we’re in at the moment. Yeah. So it’s not it’s not pure capitalism, it’s about the greater good, I guess. helping other people, yeah, making their lives better.
Nadia: (40:01)
Yeah, I’m just thinking like talking about the R and D, depending on what kind of extraction process you’re looking at. You’re looking at the low level the biostimulants, even using it in animal feed. I know one of the big champions around that is from Australia, figuring out that feeding the seaweed to the cows bring down their methane in their farts. That’s the as Asparagopsis seaweed. It’s amazing. So those applications you need a lot of biomass and then you back the applications and then you’re going all the way to the top of the cosmetics and the pharmaceutical side. So you’re looking at compounds ranging from say like ten dollars a kilogram to up to like a thousand dollars a kilogram. And you just need that structure of the biorefinery using every element of the plant in different extractions.
Mik: (40:59)
So if someone listening to this really would like to get into it, how can they be like you? You seem to be deeply into it, but what brought you there? How did you get there? And how could someone who’s starting from scratch get to really be into seaweeds? Because it’s such a distant thing, you know, it’s out there in the ocean. It’s difficult, isn’t it?
Nadia: (41:19)
Yeah, yeah. It’s a question I asked myself recently, why am I still whittling away at this? It’s not for the faint of heart. It’s been exciting and frustrating being at the forefront of a of a trend. And yeah, I poured in all of my resources to know, like kind of cling on for dear life.
Just a gut feeling knowing that you know, eventually people will like you saying, like, you know, the Elon Musk will sit up and pay attention. I would I would say it it depends on the country that you that you’re looking at. like I mentioned, the getting into the space is quite challenging with the regulations and just the permitting around that. It’s really a sticky situation because you’re looking at applying for permits and two years later, you’re lucky if you can get your farm going. In the traditional business sense, be like how many people have two years of runway to wait for for things to come through? yeah there’s there’s a few of us that that have been you know crazy enough to really just stick it out
For instance in Canada, Cascadia seaweed is amazing. Michael, and they’ve also very similar to me, just sticking it out, and and now, you know, almost I think they’re yeah, like round about the same timeline as me. between five and ten years is average in the in the seaweed space before you start heading somewhere. At the at the Earthshot Prize event, Pierre Arevis, sorry, not not Pierre … Pierre how do you pronounce his surname now? I cannot remember his surname. from Notpla. Sorry, he was very amused at me knowing their business story with Notpla, I was like, and this year this happened, and this year this happened, and he’s… Wow, you really know our story. But I said to him it’s because it gives me hope that you know, sticking it out and just, you know, there eventually you’ll make that breakthrough, and I think things are I wanna say within the next hopefully less than five years, things are gonna start picking up because more people are now paying attention to it. So yeah, I mean you’ve got the range of activities where you can slot yourself in from the actual farming side to where a lot of the countries do have some form of wild harvesting that’s happening that you can then buy from, you know, the local communities and then start making products from that. So yeah, that at the at the moment that is one of the elements that I know the Global Seaweed Coalition is also working on that, dealing with the fragmentation of the industry. because that is one of the things that really need to be stabilised, just having the traceability you know for already putting those foundations in place for the next phase where the carbon credits around the seaweed will be be in place, and just giving giving that reassurance to people buying the seaweed that, you know, then they it’s not the system where the workers are exploited.
That’s why I love Clara’s like story of just, you know, taking taking the seaweed and doing that you know, value add and actually giving back to the people that helped her to to get there. So yeah, I think a a lot of people that are drawn to the industry do not have the usual business mindset. So that’s I think that’s that’s an interesting yeah thing that is popping up around it. This is great because it’s like like I said, we can’t afford to to go down the extractive route of yeah what happened with all the other industries.
[Jingle]
. . .
Mik: (45:31)
That’s as much kelp and seaweed we could manage to put into one sustainable hour. Thank you very much to Nadia Scheffer speaking to us all the way from South Africa. Nadia, if people want to get deeper into this in terms of do you have a website or is there somewhere where people can get inspiration in this in this aspect?
Nadia: (45:55)
My local website for the South African activities is seaweedsouthafrica.co.za – and then finding the global Seaweed Coalition will be the other element to just get involved more on the international side, www.safeseaweedcoalition.org.
Mik (46:13)
Excellent. We’ll put the links in our show notes on climate safety.info. Thank you very much, Nadia. We usually ask our guests in the end to have a thought about what do you recommend our listeners and us – Tony, Colin and Mik – we should be. What should we be? Should we… You know, we used to say: ‘Be the difference’, but then we got tired of that. Someone told us, No, we shouldn’t ‘Be the difference’, we should ‘Be together’. What do you say we should be?
Nadia: (46:42)
I wanna say ‘Be curious’. We’ve created systems in the world that we’ve forgotten that we created them and we just need a bit of curiosity to rethink the system. It’s not rocket science. We don’t have to go to Mars, to quote you on that one. But yeah, we just we just need to be curious about what else is doable.
. . .
SONG (47:10)
‘Become Planetary Guardians’ – mp3 audio
[Mary Robinson: “You got a choice to make. To become Planetary Guardians.”]
Intro:
Are you ready for a change?
Can you feel it in the air?
Break down the wall
Our spirits united
We hear the call
With every heartbeat
We stand side by side
Together for the Earth
There is no place to hide
Are you ready for a change?
Can you feel it in the air?
Let’s unite, let’s ignite
Start to really care
[Almagea Sanctuary video: “Living in a community, in a beautiful place, with respect for all beings and nature, learning and growing, together.”]
Verse 1:
The world is shifting, there’s a change in the air
From coral reefs to the fields, we’re all aware
The time has come to rise and connect
Lies and bad habits we’ve got to correct
Pre-Chorus:
Politicians say what they think we want to hear
But we see through their lies, we persevere
They think we’re stupid, they play on the fear
But we see the future, it’s already here
Chorus:
Sunlight turned to energy
Clean and safe, and now it’s free
To build the world we want to see
put integrity before prosperity
Verse 2:
The kids are crying, they feel the weight
of a world that needs our love to create
We hold on to our dreams, we don’t buy their bait
We weave like fungi, we innovate
We are the guardians of tomorrow’s way
We rise with the sun, a brand new day
We turn the tide, we change the story
Rebuild the world on trust and integrity
Chorus:
Sunlight turned to energy, hey!
Clean and safe, and now it’s free
To build the world we want to see
put integrity before prosperity
[Instrumental section]
[Mary Robinson: “You have a choice to make. Become Planetary Guardians.”]
Verse 3:
We shatter the silence
Break down the wall
Our spirits united
We hear the call
With every heartbeat
We’ll stand side by side
Together for the Earth
There’s no place to hide
Pre-Chorus:
Politicians say what they think we want to hear
But take the reins ourselves, steer away from fear
They think we’re lost, but we are far from frail
We’ll rise through the struggle, we will prevail
Chorus:
Sunlight turned to energy
Clean and safe, and now it’s free
To build the world we want to see
put integrity before prosperity
Verse 4:
For all it’s worth, we’ve still got choice
Rise up for the Earth, raise your voice!
We’re the change, we break the mold
Join hand in hand, let’s be bold!
Chorus:
Sunlight turned to energy,
Clean and safe, and now it’s free
Together we’ll build the world we want to see
With integrity before prosperity!
Outro:
Together we’ll rise up for the Earth
Raise your voice! We’ll shine!
[Mary Robinson: “Become Planetary Guardians.”]
. . .
Mary Robinson:
I am an oak tree, and I have been waiting for ye to listen. I never needed my voice to be heard before, because for millennia the world understood me without words. The deer sheltered beneath my canopy. The red squirrel trusted my branches. The fungi threaded themselves through my roots, like a nervous system, passing nutrients to my neighbors. We are not separate things.
We are one conversation, ancient, fluent, and alive.
But somewhere along the way you stopped hearing us. You cleared the forests and called it progress. You drained the wetlands and called it development. You broke the soil and called it productivity. What we need you to understand, when you don’t listen to the planet, you do not protect yourselves from nature’s problems. You become them. The floods that devastate your homes.
I could have held that water in my roots, in the wetlands, in the living sponge of healthy soil. The heat that kills your crops and stifles your cities. I could have cooled the air, shaded the ground, drawn down the carbon. You have a choice to make, to become planetary guardians and to elevate my voice. A guardian is not a manager. A guardian is not an owner.
A guardian is someone who holds precious wonder for generations to come. So what do I ask of you? I ask you to give the planet a voice in every room where decisions are made. I ask you to connect your climate commitments to your nature commitments, to live within all the planetary boundaries, because a net zero world stripped of biodiversity, destruction of soils, chemical pollution.
And the air pollution poisoning all of us is not a livable world. It’s just a different kind of catastrophe, arriving more slowly. And I ask you to remember when the negotiations are difficult, when the compromise feels impossible, that somewhere right now a root is growing. Somewhere a seed is breaking open in darkness, trusting that the soil will hold it. Somewhere a forest is breathing.
Please let it breathe and listen. Do not give up on this wondrous planet.
My name is Mary Robinson, but today, as a planetary guardian, I also speak with humility for the oak, the bog, the river and the soil beneath your feet.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
CALENDARS
Events we have talked about in The Sustainable Hour
Events in Victoria
The following is a collation of Victorian climate change events, activities, seminars, exhibitions, meetings and protests. Most are free, many ask for RSVP (which lets the organising group know how many to expect), some ask for donations to cover expenses, and a few require registration and fees. This calendar is provided as a free service by volunteers of the Victorian Climate Action Network. Information is as accurate as possible, but changes may occur.
PETITIONS AND OPEN LETTERS
you could add your name to
→ List of running petitions where we encourage you to add your name
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
THE SUSTAINABLE HOUR ON AIR
LIVE STREAMING
on Wednesdays
The Sustainable Hour is streamed live on the Internet and broadcasted on FM airwaves in the Geelong region every Wednesday from 11am to 12pm (Melbourne time): 94.7 FM.
→ To listen to the program on your computer or phone, go to www.947thepulse.com where you then click on ‘Listen’ on the top right of the page.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ARCHIVE
Over 600 hours of sustainable podcast episodes
Listen to all of The Sustainable Hour radio shows as well as our special Regenerative Hours, Climate Revolution and Force of Life episodes in full length.
→ Archive on climatesafety.info – with additional links
→ Archive on podcasts.apple.com – phone friendly archive
NEWSLETTER
Receive our podcast newsletter in your mailbox
We send a newsletter out approximately four-six times a year. Email address and surname is mandatory – all other fields are optional. You can unsubscribe at any time.
FOLLOW, INTERACT AND SHARE
The Sustainable Hour in social media
• Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheSustainableHour → Front covers
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/TheSustainableHour
• Blue Sky: www.bsky.app/profile/thesustainablehour.bsky.social
• Twitter: www.twitter.com/SustainableHour
(NB: we stopped using X/Twitter after it was hijacked-acquired by climate deniers)
• YouTube: www.youtube.com/c/thesustainablehour
Great if you’ll share the news about this podcast episode on your social media platforms!
→ Podcasts and posts on this website about the climate emergency
