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The Sustainable Hour no. 615 | Transcript | Podcast notes

OUR 13 YEAR ANNIVERSARY SHOW

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What kind of future are we creating – and who gets to shape it? As the world prepares for COP31 in Antalya, Türkiye, Dr Simon Bradshaw – a prominent climate researcher, communicator, and environmental advocate – joins The Sustainable Hour with a message that brings international climate negotiations back to the people, places and relationships we love.

Simon is the COP31 Lead at Greenpeace Australia Pacific, he is a former research director at the Climate Council and a former climate adviser with Oxfam. His experience working with Pacific communities, together with his family connections to Tibet, gives him a deeply personal understanding of what is at stake. From rising seas to melting glaciers, communities on the front lines have been sounding the alarm for decades. Their knowledge, determination and leadership should help guide the response.

Throughout our conversation, Simon connects the urgency of leaving fossil fuels behind with a wider vision of a fairer, safer and more caring world.

• From climate denial to climate delay. Australia can speak warmly about its Pacific neighbours while continuing to approve coal and gas projects. Simon challenges that contradiction. With Australia taking a leading role in the COP31 negotiations, its credibility depends on matching international promises with decisions at home. Our renewable energy resources offer enormous potential to help other countries move beyond fossil fuels, while building new industries and greater energy security here.

• Every fraction of a degree matters. The prospect of overshooting 1.5°C makes rapid action more urgent. Simon explains why limiting the height and duration of that overshoot, and working to bring temperatures back down, remain essential. He warns against using promises of future carbon removal to justify continued fossil fuel use. Restoring ecosystems and the Earth’s carbon cycle can help, but a rapid transition away from coal, oil and gas is fundamental.

• What actually happens at a COP? Simon takes us inside the enormous gathering of governments, campaigners, Indigenous leaders, researchers and lobbyists. Consensus can make agreements difficult to reach, while fossil fuel interests exert influence through several channels. Civil society has a crucial role in holding decision-makers accountable. Alongside the formal talks, coalitions of willing countries, community campaigns and initiatives such as the Pacific students’ climate justice case offer other ways to push change forward.

• A vision worth working towards. Simon’s hopes for COP31 include stronger commitments to move beyond fossil fuels, funding for a just transition and greater support for First Nations solutions. He also recognises the danger of another summit producing words with little practical progress. Through that uncertainty, he keeps returning to our agency: every positive decision can help make the future safer.

We also explore political polarisation, the influence of social media and artificial intelligence, and the challenge of finding common ground. As the festive season approaches, Simon suggests starting climate conversations with what people hold dear: children, family, summer, community and the places we call home. Shared concern for those things can open a conversation that arguments over technical details might close down.

→ More from Simon Bradshaw here:
www.greenpeace.org.au/learn/holding-the-line-from-palau-to-fiji

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Closer to home, the episode opens with voices from the Surf Coast community’s campaign for climate compensation. Following a petition from 226 residents and ratepayers, Surf Coast Shire Council has joined the call for a National Climate Compensation Fund, including asking the federal government to consider a pollution levy on coal, oil and gas corporations. 

James Thom Aireys gives a speech to the activists, and Councillor Phoebe Crockett explains why community goodwill needs reliable financial backing when disasters strike. 

Mik Aidt asks who should pay for the damage as fossil fuel companies collect profits while communities face mounting costs – and whether Geelong and Queenscliffe will join the campaign. More about this further below on this page.

“The Polluter Pays principle is simple: if you make a mess, you should clean it up.”

~ James Thom, Communities for Climate Compensation, Surf Coast

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Colin Mockett OAM’s global outlook covers China’s expanding renewable energy capacity, the United Nations’ warnings about warming beyond 1.5°C, and the escalating impacts being felt across Africa and Europe.

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NEW SONG
Two original songs carry the conversation into music: 

‘So Much to Save’, inspired by Simon’s interview, brings the choices we face into the everyday world of a child drawing her future. 

‘Festival of Humbug’ takes a satirical swipe at Christmas consumerism before pulling up another chair for a different celebration – a festival of hearts, neighbours and belonging.

→ You can listen to 70 of our original songs on www.climatesafety.info/music

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Simon’s closing invitation brings it all together: Be the future we want. Live now with the values and dreams that can help bring that future into being.

“Every positive decision, every tonne of carbon we manage through our efforts – whether we’re researchers, policy activists or people blockading – that is all a safer future than we would otherwise see. And yes, there is a lot we’re now losing to climate change, and that’s heartbreaking, but there is so much more that we can and must fight to save.”

~ Dr Simon Bradshaw, Greenpeace Australia Pacific.  

→ Subscribe to The Sustainable Hour podcast via Apple Podcasts or Spotify

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We at The Sustainable Hour would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we are broadcasting, the Wadawurrung People. We pay our respects to their elders – past, present, and emerging, and extend that respect to all First Nations people.

The traditional custodians lived in harmony with the land for millennia, nurturing it and thriving in often harsh conditions. Their connection to the land was deeply spiritual and sustainable. This land was invaded and stolen from them. It was never ceded. Today, it is increasingly clear that if we are to survive the climate emergency we face, we must learn from their land management practices and cultural wisdom.

True climate justice cannot be achieved until Australia’s First Nations people receive the justice they deserve. When we speak about the future, we must include respect for those yet to be born, the generations to come. As the old saying reminds us: “We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.” It is deeply unfair that decisions to ignore the climate emergency are being made by those who won’t live to face the worst impacts, leaving future generations to bear the burden of their inaction.

“The Indigenous worldview has been marginalised for generations because it was seen as antiquated and unscientific and its ethics of respect for Mother Earth were in conflict with the industrial worldview. But now, in this time of climate change and massive loss of biodiversity, we understand that the Indigenous worldview is neither unscientific nor antiquated, but is, in fact, a source of wisdom that we urgently need.”
~ Robin Wall Kimmerer, weallcanada.org

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SAVE THE QUEENSCLIFFE CERP – MEETING ON 14 NOV

The CERP is a comprehensive 80-page strategy developed through extensive collaboration with the Queenscliffe community, local environment and climate groups, Wadawurrung Traditional Owners and Council. It outlines a 10-year strategy to achieve a net-zero carbon community by 2031 through 54 practical actions.

Residents fear the current Council aims to dismantle the CERP and replace it with a weaker framework, jeopardising our climate targets and future external grant funding.

→ Ocean Grove Voice – 29 October 2026:
Community fears climate plan cut
“Local individuals and organisations have organised a public meeting at 6pm on Saturday 14 November at the Point Lonsdale Primary School to launch a community survey, kickstart local advocacy and hear from climate experts.”

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MAKE POLLUTERS PAY

Surf Coast joins push to make big polluters pay for climate damage

Surf Coast Shire Council has joined a growing national campaign calling for fossil fuel corporations to help pay for the damage caused by climate change, following a petition signed by more than 200 local residents and ratepayers.

Surf Coast becomes the 15th council to back the Communities for Climate Compensation campaign, joining councils including Sydney, Hobart, Bass Coast and Port Phillip.

At its meeting on Tuesday 27 October 2026, council voted to advocate for a National Climate Compensation Fund, including dedicated funding for local governments. It will also ask the federal government to consider a climate pollution levy on coal, oil and gas corporations to help cover the costs of climate adaptation, resilience and disaster recovery.

Around 20 residents gathered outside the council meeting to support the proposal. The Surf Coast Environment Group’s petition called for major polluters to contribute their fair share, reducing the burden on communities through rates, taxes and pressure on local services.

The issue is close to home. January’s flash floods in Lorne and surrounding areas inundated businesses and damaged infrastructure, while bushfires threatened other parts of the Otways.

Councillor Phoebe Crockett described how neighbours had helped one another clear mud from homes and businesses after the floods.

“But that goodwill shouldn’t be the only safety net that we have,” she said. Crockett called for ongoing government funding so ratepayers were not left carrying the cost.

According to council, existing disaster recovery arrangements cover some flood recovery expenses, but significant direct and indirect costs remain unfunded. Rising seas and coastal erosion will also require continuing investment to protect local infrastructure.

The vote commits council to advocacy; establishing the fund and any pollution levy would require federal action. Its significance is the growing pressure from communities already facing the bills: climate recovery and preparedness need reliable funding, with a contribution from the corporations whose products drive the damage.

Victorian tourist towns hit by fires, floods join national push for big polluters to pay climate costs 

By Climate Media Centre on 28 October 2026

Surf Coast Shire Council is calling for a National Climate Compensation Fund, paid for by big polluters, to give its community the resources to recover from and prepare for floods, fires and storms made worse by climate change.

The council area, home to the nationally iconic Great Ocean Road, was hit hard by bushfires, and flash flooding in Lorne and the Cumberland River over summer 2025-26. Cars were washed away, people were stranded, and businesses inundated as rivers burst their banks. 

Becky McIntosh, the owner of Riverbank Cafe in Lorne, said:

“Watching the flash flood engulf my cafe in minutes was heartbreaking. After working so hard for our busiest season, seeing the devastation and losing income we rely on for the rest of the year has been incredibly stressful. It’s a stark reminder of how devastating extreme weather can be for small businesses, our livelihoods and our community.”

The costs of climate-driven disasters are now twelve times higher than 20 years ago, while Local Government revenue has grown only three times over the same period. A National Climate Compensation Fund would close that gap, giving councils reliable, dedicated funding to help communities thrive. 

Surf Coast Shire Councillor Phoebe Crockett, said:

“After a climate disaster event, it’s the council and the community who pick up the cleaning bill. After the floods our community came together, with neighbours helping neighbours clear mud from homes and businesses and get back on their feet. But that goodwill shouldn’t be the only safety net we have. We need the Federal Government to back communities like ours with real, ongoing funding, not leave ratepayers to carry the cost of a crisis we didn’t create.”

The council voted on the Climate Compensation Fund Advocacy (4.4) agenda item at its October 27 council meeting. It calls on the Federal Government to set up a National Climate Compensation Fund, and supports a levy on major coal, oil and gas corporations – whose pollution contributes to climate change – to help pay for disaster recovery, infrastructure repair and community resilience.

Surf Coast Shire Mayor Libby Stapleton, said:

“Last summer our community was hit by flash flooding and the bill for the clean-up and repairs to public infrastructure will run into the millions. Sea level rise, coastal erosion, floods, fires and heat are only going to put more pressure on our budget and our services. We’re calling on the Federal Government to set up a dedicated funding stream so councils like ours aren’t left picking up the tab for a crisis we didn’t cause.”

A survey of 68 Lorne businesses in March 2026 found 31 per cent had lost a month’s worth of income over the summer period, and a further 47 per cent had lost at least one week’s.

Anna McIldowie, who runs the Lorne Bowls Club In the Skies, said:

“As a seasonal tourist town, summer is our busiest time and we rely on it to make the rest of the year viable, but it’s also our fire and flood season. The bowlo’s on higher ground so we avoided the worst of the floods, but we still felt it with bookings lost and staff from nearby towns unable to get to work. We’ve seen events like Falls Festival cancelled because of extreme weather, and on catastrophic fire days I leave Lorne for Geelong with my sons so as not to be a burden. Other business owners and staff volunteer with the CFA and have to abandon their jobs to respond to fires or floods in our busiest season. Our local hospital is already stretched thin over January without fires and floods thrown into the mix. The whole area needs to adapt, but who is going to pay for it?”

Surf Coast Shire council also received a petition signed by 200 concerned community members calling for the Climate Compensation Fund. 

Jamie Thom Aireys, Inlet resident and member from Surf Coast Environment Group, said: 

“When bushfires, floods and storms hit, it’s our community picking up the bill in higher insurance and food prices, damaged roads, and disaster clean-up. We congratulate our council for backing our 200 strong community petition and calling for a Climate Pollution Levy, so the corporations driving three-quarters of Australia’s climate pollution pay their fair share, instead of leaving ratepayers to foot the bill.

The vote makes Surf Coast Shire the 15th council to back the Communities for Climate Compensation campaign, joining councils including City of Sydney, Tweed Shire, Hobart, Bass Coast and, most recently, Port Phillip. The council will write to relevant Federal Ministers and local MPs outlining its support.

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Children bear the brunt of climate change

Growing physical and mental health impacts of climate change on young people in Australia and New Zealand, alongside rising economic costs. Climate change is posing an increasing threat to the health and wellbeing of children and young people in Australia and New Zealand, with rising exposure to heatwaves and widespread climate-related distress among young Australians, according to the annual MJA–Lancet Countdown Oceania report. The 2026 report finds that exposure to heatwaves among infants and older adults in Australia and New Zealand has been more than 60% higher over the past decade than at the turn of the century due to climate change. The rising exposure is limiting the opportunities for safe outdoor activity, lowering participation and causing a greater likelihood of heat-related illness during physical activity. A survey of 16,230 Australians aged 14-19 found that half reported feeling worried or sad about climate change and its impacts. Around one in seven young people surveyed said these feelings were negatively affecting their daily lives, highlighting the growing mental health burden associated with a changing climate. “Climate change is the biggest health threat of our century, and children and young people are feeling the impacts, both physically and mentally. These findings show the emotional toll this crisis is already taking. We need stronger action to protect children’s health today and into the future,” said Macquarie University’s Professor Paul Beggs, lead author of the report and Environmental Health Scientist. The report warns that, despite progress in some areas, Australia and New Zealand have a long way to go in reducing greenhouse gas emissions and adapting their health systems and communities to the growing impacts of climate change. The consequences are also carrying a substantial economic burden. Heat-related mortality in Australia alone was associated with estimated costs averaging US$1.49 billion annually over 2021-2025, more than double the inflation-adjusted costs at the start of the century. “Climate change is not just an environmental challenge; it is a growing public health and economic burden. Investing in climate mitigation and adaptation is crucial to protect people’s health, reduce future costs and deliver lasting benefits for generations to come.” Professor Beggs said.    The report identifies an important opportunity for Australia to put health at the centre of international climate action. As President of Negotiations for the United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP31) in 2026, Australia has an opportunity to advocate for stronger global action that recognises the growing health consequences of climate change. “2026 is a major moment for climate action, and Australia should use their position at the upcoming COP31 climate summit to demand and commit to stronger action to mitigate and adapt to climate change.” The report was published on 30 October 2026 in the Medical Journal of Australia.

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TRANSCRIPT
of The Sustainable Hour no. 615

António Guterres, United Nations Secretary-General: (00:00)
Humanity is speeding past the limit to avoid climate catastrophe.

Jingle: (00:14)
The Sustainable Hour. For a green, clean, sustainable Geelong: The Sustainable Hour.

James Thom: (00:24)
Okay, I’d like to acknowledge the Wadawurrung as the traditional custodians of the land on which we are protesting. Land never ceded. Having cared for these lands for thousands of years, we recognise their elders past, present, and any First Nations people here today.

Climate change is already upon us and is getting more significant every year. This was highlighted by the extreme weather event in January this year that caused flash floods in Lorne and to the west of Lorne, while there were bushfires burning on the other side of the Otways. Fires, floods, and coastal erosion events are predicted to become more frequent. The Surf Coast Environment Group have tabled a petition signed by more than 200 Surf Coast Shire residents and ratepayers that it explicitly calls on the Council to pass a polluter-pays motion in support of a climate compensation fund paid for by a levy on major coal, oil and gas export corporations, not ratepayers and taxpayers. However, a report going to Council includes a recommendation to advocate for a national climate compensation fund, but it recommends against including a climate pollution levy as an option to pursue. We need the councillors to hear that local residents want big polluters to contribute their fair share rather than leaving communities to pick up the bill through rates, taxes and cuts to local services.

Yeah! [Applause]

Mik Aidt:
Jamie Thom speaking in front of around 20 Surf Coast residents who came to the monthly council meeting at the Surf Coast Shire last Tuesday to show their support for a climate compensation fund. And council then voted whether or not they should engage in doing advocacy for a climate compensation fund at the national level. And they voted yes. Here’s what the Surf Coast Shire councillor Phoebe Crockett said after the meeting:

Phoebe Crockett:
After a climate disaster event, it’s the council and the community who pick up the cleaning bill. After the floods, our community came together with neighbours helping neighbours clear mud from homes and businesses and helping them get back on their feet. But that goodwill shouldn’t be the only safety net that we have. We need the government to back communities like ours with real ongoing funding and not leaving ratepayers to carry the cost of a crisis that we didn’t create.

Mik:
So in other words, Surf Coast Shire is now a council calling for a national climate compensation fund paid by the big polluters. The vote makes Surf Coast Shire the 15th council here in Australia to back the Communities for Climate Compensation campaign, which is joining councils including for instance, City of Sydney, Hobart, and most recently Port Phillip.

The thing is, the higher fuel prices since March have directly cost drivers here in Australia an extra six billion dollars by now. In other words, petrol and diesel car owners have paid an extra $6,000 million dollars. That’s six billion.

And the fossil fuel companies, of course, are having a ball. Nine major oil and gas companies reported $217 billion in profit in the first half of this year. That’s roughly $1.2 billion in profit every single day. And what’s striking is that their profits were 57 per cent higher than one year ago because of the war in Iran.

Just nine companies at six months, $1.2 billion dollars in profit every single day. Here in Australia, Woodside and Santos reported nearly $2.9 billion Australian dollars between them over that same period. But that leaves us with the question: who pays for the damage from burning those fuel? And that’s why the idea is that the National Climate Compensation Fund would be paid for by these big polluters. Torquay and the Surf Coast Shire are behind it. So what about Queenscliff? What about Geelong? Something to look into there.

But here and now it’s time for a global outlook which we have Colin Mockett OAM, ready as always with the latest from around the world.

COLIN MOCKETT’S GLOBAL OUTLOOK:
Yeah thank you, Mik, and our roundup this week begins in China with two pieces of significant news.

First, the nation’s renewable energy capacity has now reached a record two point five terawatts, which maintains China’s position as the global leader in clean energy generation. The country accounts for roughly half of the world’s totally installed wind and solar capacity. A milestone was achieved in July when China’s installed solar capacity officially surpassed its coal fired capacity for the first time. Solar power is now the single largest power generation technology in China. But the second piece of news, and by far the more important, is that China has now embarked on a new five year plan. It’ll run until 2030.

Having smashed its original 2030 target of 1,200 gigawatts of solar and wind six years early, China has now set aggressive new benchmarks. It has adjusted its strategy towards grid integration, storage and market reforms in line with the current capacities and new expectations.

Currently China’s renewable energy generation accounts to 48.5 percent of the country’s total power grid capacity. Now that breaks down as solar power 1,299 gigawatts, wind power sits at 692 gigawatts, and hydropower remains the highest source of actual renewable electricity in China. That generation is 1,461 terawatts.

Now that includes 66 gigawatts of large scale pumped hydro storage capacity, and that’s the one that we’re having trouble with in Australia with our new Snowy 2.0. China’s already there and doing it.

Now to a new report from the United Nations Environment Program. It states that global temperature rise is projected to cross the 1.5°C degrees threshold, with 2026 tracking as potentially the hottest year on record. The new paper takes on board warning reports and used new predictive tools tracking the damage from fossil fuel emissions.

The report noted that although the world has crossed the 1.5°C degree threshold several times since 2023, most notably in 2024 which recorded approximately 1.55°C degrees centigrade above preindustrial levels, the global average temperatures are projected to permanently cross the 1.5°C degrees threshold sometime between 2029 and the mid-2030s. That’s if current strategies are maintained.

Then the climate models indicated that the world will likely enter an overshoot period where global temperatures rise above one point five degrees before aggressive emissions cuts and carbon dioxide removal attempts to bring temperatures back down later in the century.

Now there were a couple of contentious areas in this report referring to clean energy and policy friction, while onshore wind and solar continues to outpace fossil fuels in cost efficiency without subsidies. Ongoing scientific scrutiny highlighted greenwashing disputes, including corporate biofuel claims.

And that report also named Africa as warming faster than the global average, despite contributing less than four percent of global greenhouse gas emissions. The continent faces severe climate impacts, including intense heat waves, extreme floods, vanishing glaciers like Mount Kilimanjaro, and rapid sea level rise, all of which threaten food security on the continent.

It also threatens health and economic stability. The continent is heating up at a rate higher than the global average, leading to longer and more frequent heat waves, droughts and intense storms. Now these cause heavy rainfall and floods displacing millions of people and causing thousands of fatalities. Meanwhile, the continent’s coastal erosion and sea level are rise along the Atlantic, the Indian Ocean and the Red Sea coasts are outpacing the global average in most areas. But bad as that reads, the UN report had worse.

It named Europe as the fastest warming continent on Earth, heating up at more than twice the global average. That’s about 0.56°C degrees per decade.

It’s driven by human emissions and Arctic amplification. This warming causes severe heat waves, record wildfires and major droughts, leading to the European Union driven by human emissions and Arctic amplification. This warming causes severe heat waves, record wildfires
and major droughts, leading the European Union to reset a new target of climate neutrality by 2050. Ten years – they’re putting an extra ten years on. And that dose of reality, I think, ends our roundup for this week.

[Editor’s note: EU’s 2040 target was a 90 per cent reduction in net emissions compared with 1990]

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Jingle: (11:41)
Listen to our Sustainable Hour – for the future.

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Tony:
Truth telling at its best. Thanks for that, Colin. Your report’s very much part and parcel of the culture of our show now.

Colin:
And it’s a bit mixed. I mean China is pulling more than its weight and there are some nations, unfortunately, including ours, which are not pulling their weight.

Tony:
Yeah. We seem to think that it’s a two way bet. We can keep approving a project fossil projects, but as long as every now and again we throw in some some good news.

Mik:
We can have a cake and eat it too.

Tony:
Eat it as well, yeah, which isn’t true. And the longer they wait, I put it simply, the longer they wait, the more people will die. If that doesn’t motivate us, I don’t know what – nothing will.

Colin:
Well the the current problem is really made worse by the fact that the people who are really suffering are the people of Africa who do very little to create

Tony:
Yeah. Very much a justice issue and Africa and the Pacific Islands, the people living in the high countries, the roof of the Earth. And yeah, we’ll be getting a bit of insight into some of that later on in this episode, which is terrific. Our guest today is Dr Simon Bradshaw. Simon is a senior climate advisor and COP31-lead at Greenpeace Australia Pacific. So particularly busy time of the year at the moment, I imagine, Simon?

Dr Simon Bradshaw:
It certainly is, but I’m very happy to be spending this next half hour with with you three. Great to see you, Tony, and great to meet you, Colin and Michael.

Tony:
Yeah, okay, so tell us what’s your story? What’s up front at the moment?

Simon:
Well, I’m lucky to live on beautiful Darug country. I’m actually from a small island called Guernsey on the other side of the world. And I think probably my journey as an environmentalist started way back then living on an island, being lucky to be very close to the ocean, very connected to where I grew up. And I’ve been able to spend the last almost two decades working in various roles within the climate movement within Australia.

I currently work with Greenpeace. I had four blessed years working with the Climate Council as their research director, and prior to that with Oxfam as a climate advisor. It was actually during that time with Oxfam that I was fortunate to spend a fair bit of time working in the Pacific, in Vanuatu, in Fiji, in Tuvalu, in Kiribati, and that was a very formative part of my journey. I think it gave me a real appreciation, not only of just how much is at stake in our region or I mean for all of us, obviously, but just how much determination, resolve, and leadership and positivity and hope there was coming from the Pacific, and that’s continued to be a source of inspiration for me throughout.

And we’re at a very exciting moment now going into this Australia Pacific COP31 presidency negotiations, which I’m sure we’ll get to as flawed as the process is. There obviously is some some excitement over the coming weeks.

There’s another part of the world that’s also been very dear to me, which is Tibet on the roof of the world. I’m married to a Tibetan woman. We have a a beautiful eleven year old Tibetan Australian daughter. And like the Pacific, that’s another part of the world that’s is really bearing the brunt of the climate crisis. In that case, obviously it’s not sea level rise and more powerful storms, it’s the you know, melting of the Tibetan plateau, the thawing of Tibet’s glaciers and we saw a few weeks ago, you know, an absolute you know tragedy, a heartbreaking tragedy in the Himalayas, which everyone would have seen on their on their screens. Probably seen more from the Nepali side than from the Tibetan side because of the you know very tightly controlled situation in Tibet.

But one thing that’s been common in what I’ve learned from both the Pacific and Tibet is that importance of listening to voices on the front line to, you know, communities who’ve lived in whichever part of the world it is for hundreds, even thousands of generations, when we’re talking about First Nations Australia, and how much intimate and detailed knowledge there is of those environments, how much people have been warning of what’s coming for so long, and how crucially as we move forward, how important it is to be you know, listening to those who really understand how we can live sustainably and flourish on this earth.

So I’ve been lucky over my journey to have I think those two communities that have taught taught me so much. but the reality day today is I’m very much embroiled in the sort of fight for better climate policy in Australia and of course moving as swiftly beyond fossil fuels.

Colin:
Simon, can I take you back to the South Pacific? South Pacific. Did you attend the South Pacific Forum, which was Australia’s supposedly joint production with Turkey? And we were supposed to be putting a pre-COP meeting down in order to assuage the South Pacific nations. Did you attend it? And were the the South Pacific nations… How shall we say? Were they happy with the response that Australia gave them?

Simon: (17:19)
I was in Fiji a couple of weeks ago. Yes, was over there for a number of weeks in the lead up to and during the Pacific precop. [Editor’s note: The Pacific Islands Forum in Palau and the Pacific Pre-COP were separate events. The official Pre-COP arrangements involved Fiji and a leaders’ event in Tuvalu, in partnership with Australia.]
There’s a lot that can be said about that because the experience on the ground was this was a a very vibrant, sort of determined show of Pacific climate leadership, as you’d expect, and a lot of engagement from the locals to civil society there. A lot of really powerful voices for climate justice gathered in one place really driving home the message of why we have to do everything possible to limit warming to 1.5°C degrees, which I’ll come back to in a moment. And really leading by example as well. The Pacific has become what it’s aiming to be the first region of the planet to really be fossil fuel free and has a real vision now to move to 100 per cent renewable energy.

So there was that side of things. And then of course, I mean what you’re alluding to here, there’s is Australia making a commensurate response.

It’s frustrating because look, on the one hand, these days, I think we’re through those very dark years where, you know, Australia was in a state of flat out climate denial. We’re now very much in that state of climate delay, I guess. We’re able these days to, I think, say the right things on the world stage, to seem like we’re nominally supportive of Pacific climate priorities, but then of course we’re still approving new fossil fuel projects and just a couple of weeks prior was in Palau for the Pacific Islands Forum, you know, another moment this year that was very significant. And during that forum, and in fact this was the second year running this had happened, we hear there’s been another major fossil fuel approval, in this case the expansion of one of Australia’s largest coal mines.

So I think Australia is very conflicted at the moment still. There are good people in government wanting to do the right thing, seeing that Australia has potential to be a really outsized part of the world’s journey beyond fossil fuels, because of course, as we all know, we’re sitting on this almost unrivalled renewable energy potential. We could be a great source of good in the world in this way.

But then of course we have this fossil fuel addiction and continuing, despite all the warnings for nearly 30 years now, from our Pacific family, you know, to keep adding fuel to the fire through opening up new coal and gas projects. And the Pacific nations and Pacific communities have been in this fight for decades and generally they they don’t hold back. I mean the people I’ve been lucky to work within the region are so savvy, understand exactly what’s at stake, and often have very direct raw lived experience of climate impacts, you know, be it the loss of their own, you know, land and homes or having acute worries about their children.

So I think it’s fair to say, and you know, you see this in a number of statements from Pacific ministers down to frontline community activists, they expect more from Australia, especially after you know the Pacific really went into bat to help Australia get this important role as chair of global climate negotiations. So we’ve only a few days left now until the rubber really hits the road in Antalya. And I think if Australia is to be the president of negotiations that the Pacific deserves and the world needs.

We’ve really got to lift our game. Of course that starts by, you know, leading back at home and, you know, stopping approving new fossil fuel projects and really playing our part in helping the world decarbonise.

Mik:
What does it look like with this 1.5°C degree that you mentioned? Because it’s not enough… We know that Australia – as One Nation is telling us all the time – Australia is only one per cent of global emissions. So what we do, does it really matter? And all that. However, you know, what I’m saying here is we know that Trump’s country, America, could do better, should we put it that way? – and the world is not going in the right direction. The United Nations is coming out with report after report showing us that 1.5°C degrees is actually very difficult now, isn’t it? Or if not: it’s already impossible. Or what’s your take on this?

Simon:
I think there’s a couple of important things there. the first of all, look there’s there’s a path back to below one point five degrees of warming. And in fact it’s our it’s our moral, it’s our you know legal imperative, as clarified by the International Court of Justice last year. Certainly a scientific imperative that we do everything possible to return warning to 1.5°C degrees.

Because beyond that we get into really serious territory where there’s very real risk of pushing the climate beyond dangerous tipping points and unleashing a world of pain for all of us. But it’s absolutely clear that that requires a scale and pace of action far beyond what we’re seeing at the moment. And you’re right, we’ve seen successive reports warning us that we’re on the brink and now it disappeared near certain we’re going to overshoot 1.5°C degrees and it’s gonna take a Herculean effort to to bring warming back down. But that’s what we have to try and do.

To the role of Australia in this, I mean, we’ve certainly been a significant part of the problem in the past. if you add up not only our, you know, domestic climate pollution from our own energy un use, but also our fossil fuel export footprints, that really makes us say, you know, a giant of the global energy system and the and the fossil fuel economy. And with that comes opportunity as well.

Especially is unlike for example a number of the Gulf states, we’re actually blessed with enormous potential for new clean energy and industries and exports. I mean there’s almost unlimited potential for the role that Australia could play, not just in getting its own domestic emissions down, but then in, you know, supporting some of the big fast growing economies of East, Southeast and Southeast Asia, as they want to move beyond fossil fuels.

And if you start looking at what we could do to manufacture green metals and other manufactured goods, there’s a whole nother sort of sphere of prosperous activity that we should get into.

So I think it’s very important that we recognise the opportunity we have and the responsibility that goes with that. Now, I think as you pointed out, and we can’t deny it, there are some pretty dark global trends at the moment. I like to tell myself that this is still just a pushback against a longer-term trend, which is going to take us in the right direction.

Not long before we recorded, of course, Brazil has had a surprise election outcome, re-electing President Lula. It looked like things might turn a very dark direction there again. So it’s complicated. I mean there’s some very aggressive forces, but sometimes there’s seeds for optimism. We can’t deny the tough place we’re in. I mean, I remember the joy of the Paris Agreement just over a decade ago in that sort of sense that’s, well, there’s a hell of a lot of work to do, but we’re on the journey now and it’s on, so to speak.

I don’t think many people, even the pessimists, expected that we would be quite where we are now with the big resurgence of right wing parties and, you know, how catastrophically off track we are with getting emissions down. But the point I want to make there is that it’s a win-win for a country like Australia because whatever our motivation is here, whether it’s really about, you know, reducing inequality by unlocking, you know, energy security and affordability for renewables whether it’s sort of regional security by really working with Pacific partners on you know a resilient fossil fuel-free Pacific, or whether it’s building, you know, prosperous future industries beyond fossil fuels for Australia. Achieving all those things, we have to do exactly the same as we have to do to tackle climate change. I mean the great convenient truth here, and of course there’s barriers, and I’m not saying it’s easy, but you know, what would work for our own future security and prosperity and safety is what we need be doing to help, you know, work with the rest of the world to secure a safer climate future. So whatever headwinds we see happening globally, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s so much in our own interest to double down on the path beyond fossil fuels.

Colin:
Simon, you are going to COP31, aren’t you? Who will you be representing and will you have a voice there or are you just there as an observer?

Simon: (25:42)
Yes. I’ll be there with with Greenpeace as part of a team with representatives from from all over the world. We’ll have a very nice, strong Pacific contingent, as you’d imagine. The whole process depends on having that accountability from civil society. I mean, at its core it’s an intergovernmental negotiation. And of course the integrity of that process and pushing it towards closer towards the outcomes we need, that very much depends on having people from all over the world, particularly those who really understand what’s at stake with climate change, being there, raising their voices, shaping the narrative and the story in the media, and of course holding our decision makers accountable. I think we have to recognise that the process of UN climate negotiations is not the only game these days. Maybe 10, 15 years ago it was, people who remember back to that lead up to the Copenhagen summit. You know, we put all our eggs in the basket there of a binding global agreement.

These days, it’s a slightly more sort of complicated arrangement we’re working in. Now, this process of all in climate negotiations matters as a sort of backstop and to try and drag everyone along, and it matters to sort of set the global norms that can then shape national policy. It matters for a whole range of sort of climate justice elements, including helping secure the flow of funds to the sort of more vulnerable parts of the world or those parts of the world that need greater capital assistance with transition renewable energy. But we can’t rely on new negotiations alone.

And this is getting a little off your question, but my point there is we have to try and work that process for all it’s worth. But at the same time, we need to be working with coalitions of committed countries who are determined to get on with the job to support those efforts. We need to be trying creative, innovative new tactics and one of the standout examples of this was the campaign led by Pacific Island students to take realities of climate change to the world’s highest court, which then led to a landmark very powerful ruling. So I think to answer your question directly, yes, being a COP absolutely needs need Greenpeace, need other organisations, need as many voices from the community, from the front lines as we can. But at the same time we have to be working everywhere all at once with these other means to to get to where we all need to be.

Mik:
Before we move on, I’m interested, Simon, can you explain to someone who hasn’t been at a COP what is it actually? What we’re talking about 30,000 people also this year?

Simon:
That sounds about right. It’s an enormous affair. The first time I went to a COP and the first ’cause you have every government of the world there pretty much represented it represented. And for all the frustration that goes with it, there’s still something somewhat beautiful about that. I do remember the first time walking into the plenary hall at a COP and seeing the name badges of every country, just as you see when you see videos of the UN General Assembly and being, you know, wow, this is every country here trying to work on this problem and that was something quite special.

And it still has that element, but of course it’s incredibly complex and infuriating as well at times. And one of the biggest flaws, biggest strengths in a way, because it what can lead to durable agreements, one of the biggest flaws is it’s all driven by consensus. So you can have a clear majority of countries wanting to move faster and harder, and then you can have one country or block of countries with a narrow perceived vested interest in prolonged life of fossil fuels that could really put the brakes on stuff.

So it’s both, I think, exciting and can be hopeful when you have moments of breakthrough like we did in Paris. It can be exasperating when you have it grind on year after year with a number of countries are really dragging their heels. Another thing to say though these days is you have that formal negotiations part, which I’m talking about. Then you also have a whole lot of other stuff that goes on around the COP, both good and bad. yes, it’s often crawling with fossil fuel lobbyists and everybody trying to get in the ear of decision makers there. But you also have this incredible, vibrant coming together of civil society from around the world. And in Brazil last year, there were particularly strong voices from First Nations communities, not just from the Amazon, but from our continent here and from many parts of the world, really trying to push the process along as well. So you have an enormous amount going on as well, and alongside the formal negotiations, something called the Action Agenda.

Which is where you have various initiatives and deals being struck to move things forwards. So it’s a bit of a microcosm of humanity at its best and at its very worst at the same time. And I think it’s having a perspective on it, getting the best we can out of the process, but being clear eyed about its limitations, especially, you know, in a difficult global context like this.

Colin:
In light of all your experience, Simon, could you give us what you would perceive as being a really good outcome of this one? And also a worst case scenario.

Simon:
Certainly. And that’s a great question. Look, I think a good outcome would be a clear commitment not only to returning warming to one point five degrees, but recognising that that demands we accelerate the transition away from fossil fuels and to have that as part of the formal COP decision, which would reaffirm what they’ve agreed already, but I think double down on the pace of change that needs to happen over the coming years. And there’s a range of other things that are essential, including new commitments of funding to ensure the response to climate change is is just and equitable and that nobody gets left behind. But even that’s just words and frameworks. And look, honestly, at the moment that feels like a bit of a heavy lift. And ultimately it’s action, it’s actually getting emissions down not just more decisions on paper. So I think a strong formal decision like that got a whole lot on the sides in terms of, you know, new agreements and progress, be it between Australia and its big energy partners, you know, South Korea, Japan and the countries of Southeast Asia, a really strong commitment to inclusive climate action and a just transition, including supporting and elevating First Nations solutions. All the things we know are possible and desirable and can not only help us deal with climate change, but get us to the world we want. That would be great. And that all feels so possible. We’re in a moment of profound global disruption, but of course it’s in these moments you can have surprising transformative change as well if you have, you know, leaders step up.

I don’t want to get our listeners, our community, too rose tinted about it though, because I think it is a cumbersome process and at the moment we’re not, I think, as an Australian, I can say this, you know, seeing the kind of clear vision and priorities and leadership from Australia as present of negotiations that we’d want and that can help broker that kind of agreement. Of course we’re seeing fair bit of doublespeak with commitments to action globally.

But continued fossil fuel approvals. And we do have a very emboldened, you know, fossil fuel lobby and a big block of powerful fossil fuel producing countries who don’t want to see that progress. So look, I think worst case is that, you know, we see perhaps just a soft reaffirmation of what’s been committed already, but nothing concrete to move that forwards. and that of course would be very disappointing because the perils of fossil fuel dependence have never been clearer this year following the illegal invasion of Iran and how that sense, you know, fuel prices skyrocketing. That was felt harder in the Pacific than perhaps anywhere else because of the existing expense of diesel fuel imports.

If there ever was a moment where it was so clear we had to break free from fossil fuels for our own security and prosperity and of course for our future safety with escalating climate impacts, you’d think that’d be hitting us all in the face right now. But anyway, I’m forever an optimist, but I think do have to realise there’s potential for a a bad outcome here, but there’s a lot still to play for over the coming days.

Tony: (33:48)
Simon, it’s always surprised me that the fossil fuel industry has so much say at COP. Do they go in representing specific countries or like how do they even get in there? Seeing that they’re the biggest problem.

Simon:
It’s ironic, isn’t it? And it’s maddening, believe me. And we see many of us working around the lead up to this COP. It’s one of the things we pushed hard with the Australian government is to please, you know, use your influence in this process to clean it up and have it be a genuine climate negotiation and not weighed down by fossil fuel interests. short answer, Tony, is it can be both. I mean some delegations – and I think it’s okay to name names – Saudi Arabia and a number of particularly sort of fossil fuel dependent countries effectively act act as sort of proxies you know, for the fossil fuel industry. Then you do have and I know Australia in the past has as part of, if not part of its negotiating team, is part of the wider pool of people it will it will accredit, we’ll have people, you know, from different parts of the fossil fuel industry.

So there’s various ways that people get in there. And I think getting back to one of your earlier questions, Colin, is Greenpeace heading there and what do we hope to achieve? Well it’s so essential you have a counterbalance to those negative forces there and there’s opportunities for people who want to see real change to be able to speak truth to power and to be able to stare down those fossil fuel interests.

Mik: (35:40)
Is there, Simon, at the COP any mention of the influence that you know our world leaders need to have on populations mentally? What I’m talking about here is culture. It is about speaking about things in a new way. It’s about having a vision for which future we’re heading for and all these kind of things. Is that ever mentioned? Or is it only talk about degrees and gigatons and all these scientific measurement for for the climate crisis?

Simon:
It’s both. there’s a lot of technical speak, a lot of policy speak. But no, it it is where countries, anyone, get forward get are able to put forward, you know, a vision of the future we all want. Which I think, you know, as we know here on this podcast is is not just about climate change. I mean that’s a challenge we have to deal with. But it really is about, you know, the values that we want to shape our future and and what what matters to us and I’m very blessed to be a parent. I think a lot about the future that we’re creating and and what I want it to look like.

And you do have some brilliant leaders who will step up now and again and, you know, really paint a picture of the future that is possible. and then often the language of climate does fall away. And we start talking about love and flourishing and happiness and and and community and the things that often, you know, really, you know, make life worthwhile. And I think everyone at the moment knows in their gut, pretty much, certainly in Australia and when we’ve had these you know, repeated extreme weather disasters and all sorts of challenges that we have we have gonna askew and we need a course correction.

And I think what’s is so important is sometimes taking people out of that technical space and helping show, you know, what a future can be like and the different challenges we we we can solve together. So I wouldn’t say that dominates at COP, but when you do have a courageous leader and it’s not just a world leader, it might be a young person from a part of the planets we may not have heard before stands up, speaks their truth. That can have more impact than almost anything else. Because I think there’s a yearning in all of us for a a better future in the sense that is possible. So I wouldn’t say it happens enough, but when it does, it can cut through.

. . .

SONG (37:41)
‘So Much to Save’

Verse 1:
My daughter’s at the table
Drawing houses by the sea
She’s put a garden round each one
And saved a room for me
I listen to the evening news
Then look at what she’s made
She’s drawing us a future
We keep trading it away

Chorus:
So much to save
So much to do
A world of difference
In the future we choose
So much to save
make your story start a wave
We can be who we want, because
There’s so much to save

Simon Bradshaw: “It’s not just about climate change, but it really is about the values that we want to shape our future.”

Verse 2:
We shake hands with the islands
Say, “We’re with you all the way”
Then approve another coal mine
While the speeches fade away
Put the speeches on the table
Put the contracts there as well
If they tell two different stories
We can read. And we can tell

Chorus:
So much to save
So much to do
A world of difference
In the future we choose
So much to save
make your story start a wave
We can be who we want, because
There’s so much to save

Bridge:
We can grieve for what we’re losing
We can rage at what’s been done to us
We can stand beside the people
who’ve been warning us so long
Every tonne we leave below
Every bit of harm we stop
Every tenth of a degree
Gives us room to make it up

Final chorus:
So much to save
So much to do
A world of difference
In the future we choose
So much to save
make your story start a wave
We can be who we want, because
There’s so much to save

Outro:
She’s been drawing us a future
Where there’s a room for everyone
Be that future that we want
It begins with what we do – today.

Simon Bradshaw: “Be the future we want. Like, live now with the values and the dreams that you think the future needs to look like.”

. . .

Colin: (41:32)
Science has said that we’re much more likely to get a 2°C degree of warming way over the 1.5°C we’re aiming for. And in that case we’ll probably need to get the CO2 out of the atmosphere. When I hear that sort of talk it reminds me of Scott Morrison and all of the different sort of scams that was put up as a way of not actually doing anything right now about cutting fossil fuels. I’d like your opinion on that and I’d also like your opinion on a replacement for Antonio Guterres, the what the de facto climate leader in his position as Secretary General of the UN. He’s up for what… he’s on his last lap, isn’t he? He won’t be there after January the 1st. And we don’t know who’s gonna replace him.

Simon:
Well, to the first question to begin with, I think because of past inaction to get beyond fossil fuels, bring emissions down, the pathway now to returning to 1.5°C degrees does look very hard. And it effectively means doing everything everywhere all at once. And fundamentally it means leaving fossil fuels in the ground. Beyond that it does require, you know, restoring the Earth’s carbon cycle in various ways.

Now there’s smart ways we can do that, like through, you know, regenerative food systems that are helping draw down carbon and also achieving other things like, you know, local livelihoods, more resilient food production and so on. And then there are very risky ways of doing it, involving, you know, things that are getting very much into the sphere of geoengineering. I think the risk, as you’ve immediately picked up on is as soon as you talk about you know carbon drawdown, two things can happen.

First of all, people think, well, we don’t need to worry so much about getting out of fossil fuels because we can just pull the carbon back down from the atmosphere. And then the other thing is you see a whole proliferation of you know false solutions and things that can be extremely damaging. The simple truth here is that there’s no get out of jail free card. There is no path back to 1.5°C degrees of warming that doesn’t involve a very rapid rapid transition out of fossil fuels.

I think we then have to have a very careful discussion about what are the things that can help remove carbon from the atmosphere, restore balance to the earth system that’s can help achieve these other benefits, and what are those that we’ll still have to stay off limits because they’re they’re too risky and would get us into all sorts of other problems. one point five degrees is still the legally binding long-term goal under the Paris Agreement. I think because it was always

A bit complex that hold warming to well below 2°C degrees, pursue efforts to limit to 1.5°C is the exact wording. I think there was for many years this sense that there was a sort of upper goal and a more ambitious goal, but it was really all about warming should never go above, well below two degrees, so hold below that limit, continually strive to limit warming to one point five degrees. Now, as challenging as that is, that’s still the imperative because anything beyond that, you know, can be very dangerous. But this quick answer to your question, it’s a good one, is we just have to leave fossil fuels in the ground. And anyone who tells us otherwise is misrepresenting the science.

Now, the new UN Secretary-General, I’m going to fortunately reveal that I’ve not been following things as closely as I should do. Can’t give you an effective up-to-date readout on mistakes. I think there’s no question it’s time for a woman’s secretary general. I remember there was some talk, and this is in the past now, so it’s a moot point, that Christiana Figueras might move from being head of UN climate change to UN Secretary General, having been blessed to have some interaction with her recently. It’s one of these climate retreats she runs. She embodies, I think, so many of the values and perspectives that we’d want to see on the world stage. But that’s not happening.

But I hope that whoever comes next is someone who, you know, I think we’re really represent the drive and values and determination that I know so many in this community share. It’ll be big shoes to fill because Antonio Guterres has been one of the bravest voices consistently for climate action for so many years.

I think even at times when there have been all sorts of other challenges unfolding concurrently in the world has never strayed from, you know, speaking the truth about climate change. And I hope whoever steps in will be building on that legacy and helping drive us to the brighter future we all we all need.

Colin:
The trouble of course is we touched on it already. The oil industry, the fossil fuel industry has very deep pockets and they’re not afraid to use it. They know how to use it. And that’s the real worry, isn’t it?

Simon:
And we wouldn’t be where we are now if that wasn’t the the sad reality. and I think and I’m sure that, you know, many of your listeners really feel pretty exasperated at times that we are where we are and that we’re not further along on this journey. And I think when we have those feelings, which are very understandable, we just have to remind ourselves that, you know, still every positive decision, every ton of carbon we manage through our efforts, whether we’re researchers, policy activists or people blockading or whatever it might do, that that is all a safer future than we would otherwise see. And yes, there is a lot we’re now use losing the climate change and that’s heartbreaking, but there is so much more that we can and must fight to save and will do between us.

Mik: (47:04)
But Simon, talking about the global view on on these problems, isn’t it as if the world is sort of splitting up now in two, where we have countries like China really moving fast into this world of electricity and really believing in it and surprising everyone how fast they’re moving. And then we have with Trump in front, we have now all these people who are following Trump’s pattern.

In France, in England, and even here in Australia, we’re seeing how One Nation is now 20 percent of votes or more, and could be in government at state level, could be in government even at federal level. And we know what that’s going to mean for climate action in this country. And so the world is more and more going into two parts. And what will be the consequence of that? Do you think COP will reflect that split?

Simon:
I think COP tends to reflect a lot of what’s happening in the real world. And I think this one will be very contested and very divisive. And look it’s it’s hard to argue with the picture you’ve just painted there. I think we probably have to take some hope in the fact there are s you know, some other forces, the real world economics around energy and other things that will keep pulling things in a certain direction, despite that very divisive political reality. But it makes, I think, all of us very sad to see that divisiveness, knowing that the people who are losing out through sort of false promises of right wing populism are often those who are already feeling the impacts of climate change or inequality and cost of living challenges that are now being offered, you know, false solutions that again are just deepen that inequality.

I would love to think we will move to a world where we were more empathetic and understand each other’s hopes and pains and dreams and are able to find more common ground over time. And I think we just have to keep you know, work working towards that, being clear eyed about the state we are in at the moment, but knowing also what’s possible. As as you were talking there, I was thinking a lot about the role of big tech in the moment and seeing that through the years, you know, it started with kind of search algorithms, kind of reinforcing our cognitive biases, then the rise of social media, how much that did to kind of further cleave us into these little bubbles so we talk past each other.

And now you have AI as a sort of accelerant to that all and now we see of course AI is one of the big enablers of the fossil fuel industry in current expansion. So there’s a pretty dark trend there. And I think we just have to remind ourselves of our agency in this moment and that as y you pointed out earlier on, you know, it’s about having a broad view of the futures we want, the values that we want to underpin that, tackling climate change as part of that broader vision, listening to each other, be it people, you know, in rural Australia, be it on the front lines of climate change in the Pacific, and hoping that greater wisdom prevails and that we do find our way to something better.

Mik:
Everything you’ve talked about today, Simon, truth and empathy and communicating with one another is exactly what we need to be very conscious about in the season we are entering now of you know season of festivities and get togethers. And talking about climate in these in this context is usually what’s called a ‘party pooper’. It’s not what people want to talk about. Is there a way, do you have any advice to us as we go into the festive season in terms of how do we talk with, you know, climate denying Uncle Bob in a positive way that could actually change things?

Simon:
Gonna make me or anyone else the life of the party, but I was thinking about these days how so many I conversations I have about climate actually start or end as conversations about family. It’s often conversations about our children if I’m talking to fellow parents, or it’s conversations about our friends and relatives on other parts of the world and what they might have been through these past few months. And I think the only prescription is probably bringing it back to those things that we all love and hold dear.

And if the conversation descends too quickly into things we can’t see eye to eye over about policies or technical kind of stuff, there’s things that we all love. I mean we all love summer, you know? We all love family time. These things that are threatened profoundly by climate change. And I think if we can get back to those things that matter to us, especially in the season we’re going into and realise what we have in common there. The people, the places, the communities, the things we love, then maybe there’s some hope that we can rally around and wanna build that future together.

Colin:
And you couldn’t have a better segue than that, Mik. To play the tune. Go on, you know you’re dying to do it.

Mik:
Yes. No, that’s what it was, Mik, about that. Okay. So, ‘Be-section’. Do you want to introduce it this time, Tony?

Tony:
Simon, so at we end up each show with asking the guest what their suggestion would be what we need to be. As a result, for a long time we went with ‘Be the difference’. And yeah, since we’re advised to just change that up a bit, have a bit of variety in there. So what would you – I can see you thinking hard there! – what would you have us be?

Simon: (53:00 )
Be the future we want. Like, live now with the values that’s… and the the dreams that you think the future needs to look like.

Colin:
I’ll go with that. Be the future we want. Yep!

Mik:
Yeah. And we have a little Christmas gift for you, Simon. It’s a song we’ve made, and it does talk about empathy, but before it does talk about that, it also talks about… and that’s the title of the song – that we are entering the ‘Festival of Humbug’.

Simon: (53:32)
Well, I love your work, and thank you for a very enriching conversation. It’s been a real treat.

. . .

SONG:
‘Festival of Humbug’

Verse 1:
There’s a star above the shopping centre  
and a queue around the block
We’re all waiting for a miracle
They’ve just put it back in stock

Mum is sweating in the kitchen
Dad’s still hanging up the lights
Someone’s bought a singing reindeer
No one gets a silent night

Chorus:
Welcome to the Festival of Humbug
hang your plastic on a tree
Put the planet on the credit card
The delivery is free
More – bigger – better!  
We just can’t get enough
It’s the Festival of Humbug
It’s the Festival of Stuff

Verse 2:
Buy, baby, buy! – let the barcode sing
all major cards for the newborn king
Gold for the shareholders, debt for the rest
It’s the season where we monetise stress

Two-for-one joy in a shrink-wrapped pack
buy now, pay later, send half of it back
“Free delivery!” You like the phrase?  
The price disappears. The pollution stays

Burn, baby, burn! – Santa’s out fracking
but look at that price! So cheap it’s cracking!

Uncle Bob says, “Climate’s a hoax.”  
Someone passes him a beer to shut up
Then he turns the air-con lower:  
“Bloody hot for this time of year!”

Bridge:
This Christmas, shop our sustainable collection
Greener wrapping and gadgets you can offset

Verse 3:
Green on the ribbon, green on the van
green on the logo. Such a beautiful plan
The planet’s on fire, but the plastic tree’s blinking
Your bin – your fault. It’s our record this year
Thank you for shopping. See you back here!  
One more year of turnover growth
One little planet. Good luck with both!

Verse 4:
Wheelie bin is bulging
Kids have gone outside
I find the card my daughter made  
and put the gifts aside.

My neighbour’s got the telly on
He’s eating on his own
We’ve got food enough for twenty
I stop scrolling on my phone

Final chorus:
Pull up another chair
We don’t need a bigger Christmas
We need everybody there
Bring a plate and ring your neighbour
Bring in more of yourself
Leave that commodity on the shelf
Stop all the moving parts
And welcome to the Festival of Hearts

Voice:
Would you like a bag?

Welcome to the Festival of Hearts

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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The Sustainable Hour in social media

• Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheSustainableHour → Front covers

• Instagram: www.instagram.com/TheSustainableHour

• Blue Sky:  www.bsky.app/profile/thesustainablehour.bsky.social

• Twitter:  www.twitter.com/SustainableHour
(NB: we stopped using X/Twitter after it was hijacked-acquired by climate deniers)

• YouTube: www.youtube.com/c/thesustainablehour

Great if you’ll share the news about this podcast episode on your social media platforms!

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