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The Sustainable Hour no. 534 | Transcript | Podcast notes
In this 534th episode of The Sustainable Hour, we explore the urgent reality of climate breakdown and the need for bold action in the face of political inertia and disinformation.
Join us as we confront the defining issue of our time and explore how communities can reclaim the narrative, demand accountability, and turn the tide on climate inaction. Currently our global community appears to be on autopilot to collapse and destruction. How do we take back control?
Our guest of The Hour is Luke Taylor, director of the National Sustainability Festival, which always spans the month of February. Introducing us to this year’s program, some of the festival highlights Luke refers to are:
Nature Obituary
Gina Chick – “Not Alone”
Rehydrate Earth
The overall programme can be found here.
Luke also discusses Collision Course, the latest report from the Breakthrough National Centre for Climate Restoration, which Luke is Managing Director of. The report warns of the devastating consequences of a 3°C world. As its title implies, it seriously questions our capacity to survive in a 3 degree world. The report can be found here.
We also dive into the growing challenge of coordinated climate disinformation and fake AI-generated voices, images and videos.
A unique feature of this episode is three AI-generated songs, crafted to reflect the themes we discuss. They offer a thought-provoking glimpse into the intersection of technology, creativity, and activism. The songs are copyright-free, creative commons, and can be shared and played as much as you like:

Collision Course | Lyrics

Sustainable Living | Lyrics

Starting From Today | Lyrics
That’s it for the first episode of The Sustainable Hour for 2025. It’s great to be back again after a very refreshing break.
After the show we had a fascinating discussion with our guest Luke Taylor. The issue which came up was the use of and campaigning on the term “Adaption” in the climate movement. Breakthrough’s latest report Collision Course seriously questions our ability to adapt to the climate crisis we are steering towards.
If we give up on fighting to stop the major causes of the crisis – in particular: the fossil fuels – and instead divert our energies into trying to adapt to a 3 degree world, we will end up realising that this is impossible. While it does allow the fossil fuel psychopaths more time to prolong their demise, it will only make the situation worse until a series of major climatic tipping points begin to set in and we are caught in an unstoppable runaway planetary catastrophe.

We’ll be back next week. Until then, as the National Sustainability Festival slogan says: Live like the world depends on it. Tune in and sign up to the engaging festival opportunities where you can be that difference!
“It is really important that we take time out and stop and really give honour and reflection to the power of what it is that we’re fighting for here. It’s this deep connection and our need to preserve and protect and restore the environment. So I think the National Sustainability Festival offers some of that through personal stories and the opportunity to tell your own story and to put forward your own reflections and thoughts in relation to how important the role of nature – or the connections and nature – plays in your own life.”
~ Luke Taylor, director of the annual National Sustainability Festival
The Sustainable Hour’s political pledge
This link shows where our focus will be in the lead up to our next federal election, the timing of which is expected to be announced any day now.
We’ll be doing all that we can to ensure that this Federal election will be a true #ClimateElection, one informed by real facts and not dis- and misinformation.
Our “all hands on deck” bells are ringing loudly. Elections are one time when we can turn real climate concerns into real action.
→ Subscribe to The Sustainable Hour podcast via Apple Podcasts
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We at The Sustainable Hour would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we are broadcasting, the Wadawurrung People. We pay our respects to their elders – past, present, and emerging, and extend that respect to all First Nations people.
The traditional custodians lived in harmony with the land for millennia, nurturing it and thriving in often harsh conditions. Their connection to the land was deeply spiritual and sustainable. This land was invaded and stolen from them. It was never ceded. Today, it is increasingly clear that if we are to survive the climate emergency we face, we must learn from their land management practices and cultural wisdom.
True climate justice cannot be achieved until Australia’s First Nations people receive the justice they deserve. When we speak about the future, we must include respect for those yet to be born, the generations to come. As the old saying reminds us: “We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.” It is deeply unfair that decisions to ignore the climate emergency are being made by those who won’t live to face the worst impacts, leaving future generations to bear the burden of their inaction.
“The Indigenous worldview has been marginalised for generations because it was seen as antiquated and unscientific and its ethics of respect for Mother Earth were in conflict with the industrial worldview. But now, in this time of climate change and massive loss of biodiversity, we understand that the Indigenous worldview is neither unscientific nor antiquated, but is, in fact, a source of wisdom that we urgently need.”
~ Robin Wall Kimmerer, weallcanada.org
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→ Australian Strategic Policy Institute – 20 January 2025:
To fight disinformation, treat it as organised crime
“Laws similar to those governing organized crime could target scale, coordinated behavior, financial patterns, and systematic manipulation. This approach would allow governments and social media companies to target malicious disinformation networks and actors, rather than engaging in ineffective content moderation.”
ClientEarth reports that the European Court of Human Rights has ruled for the first time that country’s governments failng to properly address environmental pollution is a violation of the human right to life.
This also includes governments informing people who live in areas affected by pollution, so that they can assess the risks to their lives and health.
This ruling is the result of a case brought by a group of Italian citizens, as hazardous pollution from illegal waste dumping and burning in the Campania region is having devastating impacts on their health.
It is an extremely important moment for existing and future environmental human rights cases, such as another environmental human rights case in Italy, in which ClientEarth is supporting a mother fighting for recognition of her son’s right to breathe clean air.

→ The New Daily – 3 February 2025:
‘Prepare for the worst’: Fresh dangers as thousands evacuated, system turns deadly
“I got emotional when I read a recent article by Peter Kalmus in the New York Times. It’s about how the wildfire in Los Angeles burned his former home there, how he saw this disaster coming, and how we’re simply not doing what needs to be done to stop the growing climate emergency. As soon as I read the article, I knew I wanted to invite my friend back to the Crazy Town podcast to commiserate and think about a way forward in the wake of this tragic event.
Although I love talking with Peter (this is his third visit to Crazy Town), it was hard to hear him describe what happened to the neighborhood where he and his family used to live. But being the thinker and activist that he is, he didn’t get stuck in reaction and grief. He brought ideas about what nature is trying to teach us and how to think about unnatural disasters now and in the future. Please give this episode a listen or a view, and if you like it, share it with 2 or 3 friends. We need as many people as we can get to draw from Peter’s knowledge and wisdom.”
Rob Dietz
Program Director, Post Carbon Institute
Episode 97: The House Is Quite Literally on Fire: Peter Kalmus on the Climate Emergency Hitting Home
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Transcript of The Sustainable Hour no. 534
António Guterres, United Nations Secretary-General:
Failure is not an option.
Jingle:
The Sustainable Hour. For a green, clean, sustainable Geelong. The Sustainable Hour.
Anthony Gleeson:
Welcome to The Sustainable Hour. Over the summer I had the great fortune to move through many First Nations country as I went up and down the East Coast and just there’s something common in all of their cultures and that’s the belief of the responsibility we have to look after country. And I guess that’s why we do acknowledgement of country each week. One of our hopes is that we learn to use the ancient wisdom that they’ve acquired from nurturing their land and their communities, and both are just as important as the other. They’re intricately licked. The ancient wisdom that they’ve acquired of, yeah, of nurturing both of those for millennia, so that’s tens of thousands of years. That wisdom has been accumulated and we have a responsibility now. A big part of the solution is that we use that and work with First Nations people on getting those values, returning to those values. So in doing that, we acknowledge the elders past, present and those that will earn that great honour in the future. And as always, we’re starting off a new year, we hope that we get real on climate.
Trump:
With these actions, we will begin the Revolution of Common Sense.
AI Voice:
Trump has hijacked the concept of ‘common sense’.
Amercian journalist at Trump’s press conference:
How do you come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash?
Trump:
Because I have common sense, okay? And unfortunately a lot of people don’t.
AI Voice:
Calling for common sense and rational decision making used to be… well, common sense. But not anymore. Now it’s a political weapon, distorted, stripped of meaning.
Just as Sky News keeps insisting that renewables are expensive and unreliable compared to fossil fuels when the truth is precisely the opposite. The cheapest, most reliable energy sources today are wind and solar, but their agenda is to keep the fossil fuel industry running. So they’ll say anything, doesn’t matter that it is a lie, just to make people continue buying their petrol and gas without feeling bad about it. Welcome to the age of AI deception and industrial scale misinformation where up is down and down is up. People lap it up. They swallow it whole without question and guzzling down illusions, not even realizing they’ve been duped.
Now, if you think this is your host of the sustainable hour speaking, so the same voice you’ve heard on the pulse for the last 12 years, well, then you’ve just been fooled as well. I am not Mik. I am an AI, a machine generated voice, expertly crafted to sound human.
Cheating is easy.
Mik Aidt (at 03:38)
Cheating is easy. Being honest and accountable – that’s a slow and often much less popular… and certainly in politics it can even be a losing game on the short term. But what we say here in The Sustainable Hour is it will always be a winner on the long term. And by the way, this is the real Mik speaking right now.
This election, it’s time for accountability. I’ve certainly made a bit of a New Year’s resolution that we’ll be focusing on accountability in the sustainable hour the next month and on positive stories where we’re looking at what’s working out there and how we create that change in the world that’s needed. I personally have made this resolution. I want to put my energy in positive activities such as, for instance, that I think we need organise a Citizens Assembly here in Geelong.
I also believe we should be supporting the political parties and candidates that stand up for the climate. That would be, for instance, the community independent. If there is a community independent in Corio or in Corangamite, it will be the Greens and the Animal Justice Party, among others.
And then, of course, we’ll be creating loads of podcasts and going out in the community, organising meetings where we can talk about these solutions that are within reach. Rather than just thinking that the politicians will listen to us if we are banging their doors and shouting loud enough, I don’t think they will. I think the only way we can improve this rather desperate situation we are in now is we need to get new politicians in there in parliament, politicians with integrity who will make decisions that genuinely have an effect on the climate, a positive effect. And that work starts, as we know, in the community.
When we started The Sustainable Hour 12 years ago, climate breakdown was, I would say, a bit of a distant thread at the time. It was almost like a theory, but now it’s reality. 2024 was the hottest year ever. And January that we’ve just been through was the hottest month on this planet ever. Where I live when I woke up on Monday morning, a big tree had crashed down in my neighbour’s car.
ABC News speaker: (at 06:04)
People south of Melbourne are being warned to prepare to take shelter as a severe thunderstorm hits that area. The State Emergency Service has issued a watch and act alert for Geelong, Queenscliff, Werribee, Sorrento and the surrounding area. The Bureau of Meteorology says the storm is likely to produce large hailstones, damaging winds and heavy rainfall that could lead to flash flooding.
ABC News speaker:
There have been more than 8,000 lightning strikes today. Around 1,000 of those are believed to have hit ground and have the potential to ignite fires.
ABC News – meteorologist:
It’s really tough for those communities out there. We can expect more fires in days all the way through February and into March more challenges.
Mik: (at 06:51)
It’s not such a distant threat anymore. And the reason we’re not worried and scared and changing our ways, stop burning petrol and gas and so on immediately is because we’re being lied to. We’re being fed with misinformation and fake stories saying, well, there’s no problem. Or even saying, you know, conspiracy theories that, the problem is actually the government.
It’s the government that secretly is geoengineering and messing with the climate. Misinformation is a huge problem. And certainly when we come into election time now. Because the future isn’t that we hang on to these outdated old systems of the fossil fuels. We need innovation. We need something that runs on electricity, clean energy, wind turbines, and so on. So now it’s time for Mockett-information, not misinformation, but mockettinformation, the sustainable hours most reliable source of global news compiled by the former News Corp journalist Colin Mockett OAM. So we are all ears. Colin, what do you have for us today?
Colin Mockett:
Good morning, Mik. Yes, of course. And before I actually go through my roundup for the week, if I can remind you that in 2019, when I was on holiday in the UK, I was at a meeting, chance meeting in a museum, which formed the Citizens’ Assembly for South Shields in Durham. And I’m still on their mailing list and they still send me their monthly reports and it’s fascinating reading especially when you were saying that after setting up a citizen assembly here in Geelong they might throw up people who would stand for parliament. I can tell you from their experience they haven’t thrown up anybody who has stood for parliament in self-shields but what they have done is established a voice. And that voice is being listened to by the parliamentarians who are still of the major political parties in the UK. It’s Labour and the Conservatives, the Tory party, mostly Labour in South Shields. But it turns out that they didn’t, it isn’t a factory, if you like, a conveyor belt that’s turning out politicians. It’s turning out a really good voice that gets heard by the people who become politicians. And that’s the difference. And I think, yes, let’s still do it. We do need a citizens assembly. We need a voice.
Having said that, it’s time for the roundup. Now we are in 2025 and that’s 10 years on from the Paris Agreement of 2015. So it’s a good time to take stock. That agreement in Paris, 196 of the world’s leaders signed to limit global warming to 1.5°C degrees.
The signed deal was that greenhouse gas emissions must peak before 2025, and that’s on the way to a decline of 43 per cent by 2030. But now in 2025, as Mik pointed out, the opposite has occurred. According to the latest analysis conducted by Europe’s Copernicus Climate Change Service, the world’s 10 warmest years all occurred since that signing in 2015.
Ocean temperatures reached record highs last year in 2024. Now because warm water evaporates quicker than cool, this led to record-breaking amounts of water in the atmosphere and this humidity influenced torrential rainfall conditions around the world. Now this included those that inundated eastern Spain last October, the catastrophic flooding in Southeast Asia, East Africa and southern Brazil. And it also led to Californians recent and ongoing wildfires, as well as the Townsville floods currently and the Victorian bushfires that are in Western Victoria. Because high temperatures and high rainfall causes growth, ultra growth and that coupled with the high temperatures becomes tinder for fires.
Now that’s the climate impact of the last 10 years. Now let’s have a look at what’s happened in the politics.
This is led by Donald Trump being back in the White House of course. One of the first things he did was to pull the US out of that Paris Agreement and at the same time he advanced his pro-fossil fuel policy of drill baby drill. I mean he comes up with ‘Drill Baby Drill’ as a matter of pride! That withdrawal makes the United States one of only four UN countries, alongside Iran, Libya and Yemen, who are not taking part in the global effort to tackle climate pollution. And his policy of a resurgence of global oil and gas production, well, it’s the last thing that our overheating planet needs.
It fits in with the ongoing domination of the UN’s COP climate summits by fossil fuel interests. The COP summits led on from the 2015 Paris Accord, of course, and their present domination by fossil fuel companies demonstrates that the world’s political and business leaders, including ours, are still not prepared to take serious action about our rapidly deteriorating climate, despite that we’re all clearly suffering the effects of burning oil and gas and coal. Our leaders prefer to listen to their fossil fuel industry advisors because they come bearing gifts to their political parties.
Now according to the latest UN figures, world government still plan to produce and use more than double the amount of fossil fuels in 2030 than would be consistent with limiting warming to 1.5°C degrees. Global coal production is expected to continue until then with oil and gas extending at least until 2050. Until our political and business leaders have the courage to put a price on carbon, and remove the fossil fuel subsidies, the renewable energy transition that we’re all after, which is worsening weather extremes, will continue to reconfigure life on our planet.
Scientists now predict that as an industrial pollution continues to warm our planet, one day we will look back at 2024 as one of the coldest years of the 21st century.
We recognised it is the warmest, but we’re still getting warmer and warmer. We recognise that. Our politicians don’t.
Now, in the meantime, Australia is the sunniest country on the planet, has only 18 per cent of its electricity generated by solar power. We’re squandering an enormous economic advantage that other countries can only dream about.
By comparison, China is on track to generate 56 per cent of its power from solar by 2026. 56 per cent by next year. And they don’t get as much as we do. A sunshine that is. And that solar power is increasingly being used in China on the roads. Because for the first time, electric vehicles outsold all other vehicles in China in 2024.
In 2025, EV sales are projected to grow another 20 per cent to more than 12 million.
Meanwhile, Donald Trump is taking the US backwards.
And just for Tony, Forest Green Rovers are second on their ladder and in a place for promotion. And that little piece of mixed news ends my yearly weekly global roundup.
Jingle:
Listen to our Sustainable Hour – for the future.
Tony: (at 15:38)
To kick off 2025, we’ve got two for the price of one today. We’ve got Luke Taylor, who’s both director of the National Sustainability Festival, which is held every February, and we always get Luke on early in the year to chat about that. And then in the second part, Luke will be talking… He’s the managing director of the Breakthrough National Centre for Climate Restoration. They brought out many mighty fine reports over the last few years and their latest one, ‘Collision Course’, is something Luke is eager to talk to us about.
So Luke, welcome to The Sustainable Hour. Thanks for coming on.
Luke:
Thanks for having me back again.
Tony:
Pleasure. What’s the upfront in the National Sustainability Festival? I’ve had a quick look at the program and it’s not just one thing a day, there’s multiple events. It’s too many choices for some. What’s up front for you? What’s standing out?
Luke:
Well, I think as most people know that the festival obviously runs over the entire month of February, which gives us a fantastic opportunity really to showcase what’s happening, not just in the inner city of Melbourne, but also regionally and right across the metropolitan area and even some national events in other states as well.
So it’s really about connecting people in what’s happening in their local area as much as it is about giving them some of the highlights in relation to what are the key themes that are occurring within the climate and the environment movement currently. So we’ve got another huge festival of events happening, as said, right across the month of February. And people can check out the full program online, on www.sustainabilityfestival.au.
Really, this year is putting the focus really on connection with nature and connection to climate and environment in ways that we possibly haven’t done before.
There’s a feature event I want to make a highlight of which is called Nature Obituary. And it’s a provocative work by artist Janine Willis and she has created a very profound work which where which is happening in the Botanic Gardens. It’s a live performance, interactive performance. And it’s really offering people an opportunity to come down and actually write a tribute to nature. And this could be reflecting on loss of a part of nature that has already, unfortunately, been lost or something that is very much at risk and needs attention for protection or restoration.
And it’s really tapping into that, you know, that I guess that that idea that we we really need to confront the crisis more as it is and and and really look at what has been lost and use that to empower us to act with a lot more urgency and ramp up the speed and scale of the response.
So people are actually invited to come down to Botanical Gardens and write and there’ll be a live performance, spoken word poets will actually read out live in the Botanical Gardens – Melbourne Botanic Gardens – the obituaries that have been written by members of the public. It’s a profound experience of witness the performance live and bringing it to Melbourne. I think for the first time is going to be a a real eye-opener for a lot of people. So come on down to that event. It’s on the 22nd and the 23rd of February at the Royal Botanic Gardens in Melbourne.
Tony:
We’ll put the program up on in the show notes.
Luke:
That’d be great.
Tony:
So people can check that out. And from what I can see, very easy to book. There’s a lot of free events.
Luke (at 20:17)
Heaps of free events, including our feature speaker this year, Gina Chick, who, of course, of your listeners and watchers may know of as the winner of the SBS Alone Survival Program.
So Gina’s got a remarkable story of not only her time during that episode with the SBS program, but also more generally through that and through her life’s work, the profound connection to nature that she has used for her personal resilience. And without giving too much away about her story, she’s an incredibly powerful.
A woman and we’re very much looking forward to an in conversation. have to say tickets are booking out very fast. We have the Capitol Theatre in Melbourne on the 23rd. It’s 12 p.m. and we’re lucky to have a good sized venue for that because we’re going to need it with with the amount of interest we’ve had so far. So if you’re interested in that, I’d say get in quick for that.
There’s also a lot of activities that we’re really geared towards younger people this year in terms of the kids activities, Costas Garden Extravaganza is happening again at the Botanic Gardens, our giant picnic event down at the Oak Lawn at Botanic Gardens. This is a great opportunity to bring the kids.
There’s a big picnic parade happening before the live stage event with formidable vegetable, who’s very well known sustainability kids band. So there’s lots of activities, great activities on that weekend. That’s Sunday the 16th of February at 10:30am. So we encourage people to come on down, bring the kids, bring the family, bring a picnic rug and a locally sourced packed picnic.
Mik:
I recommend you, Luke, for every year I think you find themes for the festival that resonate with where we are in the movement. And I certainly have felt in the last year, there’s been a huge growth in the amount of people who talk about nature, our relationship with nature, who talk about also, of course, degrowth and how we start to really not just talk about energy and that we have to insulate our houses better, but it goes deeper than that. It is about how we connect with that outside world where we have previously been thinking, we can do without nature, and we realise: No, maybe we can’t!
Luke:
Yeah, I think that’s right. think this year we’re really looking at some of those personal stories and certainly Gina’s involvement and also the nature of butchery offers an opportunity for us to… We often do get caught and I think obviously it’s really important the festival has a lot of events relating to the issues, but it’s actually really important that we take time out and stop and really give honor and reflection to just the power of what it is that we’re fighting for here. It’s this deep connection and as you say, our need to preserve and protect and restore the environment. And so I think these types of events offer some of that through again personal story and the opportunity to tell your own story and to put forward your own reflections and thought in relation to how important the role of nature or the connections and nature plays in your own life.
And so we want to bring our audience into that in a collective sense as much as possible.
Tony:
For those that have just joined us, we’re talking to Luke Taylor at the moment, talking about the National Sustainability Festival that is taking place right throughout February. And yeah, lots and lots of great events for all of us to see, to take part. So many of them this year, it seems, are interactive, which is, people just aren’t sitting back, but they’re contributing as well. And they’re in become the solutions that we’re going to need.
Anything else on the festival loop? Are there any international guests on this year?
Luke:
Yeah, that’s a good question actually, because there’s definitely been a trend for in-person attendance by international speakers, probably away from from personal attendance and more online. And that’s given that obviously a lot of international speakers are more concerned these days with the travel miles and obviously effects on the planet, which is completely understandable. But we have a growing amount of online events. know, since COVID, that’s really opened up that space, which we really welcome because we’re getting, you know, some good participation from from a range of international speakers and putting our audience in touch with some of the really big themes that are happening on the international level.
There’s an event this year that’s happening called Regenerate Earth, and that’s featuring a couple of European scientists. So we discussed discussing what they’re calling a new water paradigm, is really tapping into restorative farming and water use, land use. So two experts from Europe will be joining that discussion. And that’s just one of the examples of some of the international guests that will be participating.
But as I said, really, really pleased actually that, you know, in a way that that’s one of the kind of gifts that COVID gave the festival when we actually, for a number of years, had to go online as a festival and what’s come out of that is now a fusion of both online and in-person events because before, know, we before COVID we didn’t have any online events so quite an interesting sort of transformation.
Mik:
In that light – what we can do with our computer screens – Luke, we have a gift for the National Sustainability Festival [previously called the Sustainable Living Festival] from The Sustainable Hour. We’ve created a little song – with the help of AI, of course.
SONG
‘Sustainable Living’ | Download song mp3
[Verse 1]
Morning sun peeks through my window pane
See my neighbor planting in the rain
Trading tomatoes for her fresh-baked bread
Simple choices moving us ahead
Look around at faces that I know
Every seed we plant helps others grow
People gathering in the town today
Making changes in a brand new way
[Pre-chorus]
Hand in hand we’re building something real
Share the food, share the way we feel
Every small step leads us to believe
In the power of you and me
[Chorus]
Sustainable living, bringing us together
Sustainable living, any kind of weather
Sustainable living, changing how we move
Sustainable living, everything we do
[Verse 2]
Sally shows me how to save the rain
While Tim’s creating compost down the lane
Kids are learning how to plant and grow
Making gardens row by row by row
Someone’s sharing bikes they used to ride
Someone’s teaching skills they used to hide
Every person brings a different part
Now we’re learning how to make a start
[Bridge]
Remember when we felt so far apart?
Now look how close we are
From tiny seeds to open hearts
We’ve come so very far
[Chorus]
Sustainable living, bringing us together
Sustainable living, any kind of weather
Sustainable living, changing how we move
Sustainable living, everything we do
Tony: (at 30:54)
Now, Luke, let’s change to the latest report from the Breakthrough National Centre for Climate Restoration – I love the name of that organisation – ‘Collision Course’. So Breakthrough have never shied away from truth telling. And this is very much a continuation of that theme, of telling the truth about. So why are you so enthusiastic about this, Luke?
Luke:
Yeah, thanks, Tony. I mean, I think that the latest report that we’ve put out is, as you say, it’s yet again another climate reality check, I guess. And that’s what we try to do at Breakthrough is to really confront the degree of the risk and the impacts that we’re facing so that we can really forge a way forward that is comparable and matches the degree of risk that we’re facing. So I guess the enthusiasm is about the depth in which the work by David Spratt, who is the author of this report, has gone into. Yet again, David’s work is, I think, a real testament to that idea of really confronting the issues and the profound nature of the risks and the impacts that we’re facing.
The report really, just in very general terms, points out that in practical terms now, the world has reached 1.5°C degrees of warming and the pace of this warming is increasing. It’s not decreasing, it’s increasing. We’ve talked a lot about the 1.5 target and policymakers in the international sphere still talk about capping 1.5, but when you look at the analysis, then in practical terms, we are pretty much already there at 1.5 degrees.
So there’s this real contradiction of what’s happening in the climate policy space about the way climate is being talked about in the mainstream and the way even in some parts of climate activism is being talked about. I mean, we need to confront that reality of where we’re at again when you look at the detailed analysis. That accelerated rate of warming seems to be likely to to increase mid-century because we are actually failing as we know to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. I mean, that’s where we’re at.
Again, there is this sort of myth in the mainstream that because of the rise of renewable energy and so forth and just the awareness of climate change that suddenly that’s created a decrease in emissions, but it’s not. as we know, we’ve just been told that the last year was the hottest year on record. And so all the signs continuing to mount. The evidence is absolutely clear. And this evidence has pointed the fact that a number of critical, what’s called critical large system tipping point thresholds are being breached or are in the process of being breached.
Now, these are critical Earth systems that life depends on for healthy functioning world and human population. And so thus while the title of the report is called Collision Course, looking at the impact of what now we are on track to three degrees of warming. And, you know, three degrees of warming, I remember from an interview that we did a number of years ago with as security, climate security expert, who was a former military Pentagon official, said that three degrees of warming is just incompatible with human civilisation. I mean, you don’t have to go far to see what’s already occurring now obviously at 1.5 degrees. And you can imagine three degrees, you can imagine the type of ecological and natural system breakdown and then they run on effects obviously to human communities and that is what we are currently facing at the moment.
So it’s a hard look again at that and a lot of people would say, well, we’ve got a lot of information and what we need is action. And I think that is correct.
But we do need the information that is current, relevant, and looks at the high-end degree of risks that we face. We don’t often do that. And in risk management, classic risk management, that’s what you would do. You look at the high-end risks. You don’t look at the middle to low-end, which is what we’re, you know, in mainstream climate policy within government and so forth. That’s where the attention is. And so we’re missing this high end risk management approach, which is leaving the whole world completely vulnerable and obviously our nation, our region and the rest of the world. So that’s a critical thing. And that’s what I think the report really brings into stark focus is that high-end risk analysis.
Mik: (at 37:44)
Could it be… You know, there’s a lot of talk about the oligarchs taking over the world basically – Could it be that it’s not that Trump is stupid and not understanding the science and the report as you mentioned with the three degrees and everything and the consequences. Could it be that it’s deliberate? That he wants that disruption and that these people in the oil companies are actually thinking, ‘Yeah, some billion people are going to die, but they’re going to be in the tropical areas, so, not where we are.’ Could it be that cynical?
Luke:
I mean, I think there’s no doubt when you look at the evidence and the sustained pushback on meaningful climate action that there is and has been for a long time a coordinated effort against any real meaningful action on climate change. I mean, these are the tactics that have been used as we know, we’ve been over this before on this program and spoken about before the merchants of doubt.
I think we’re in a new era now. I mean, we used to have the merchants of doubt around whether climate change was a reality or not. But I think, you know, we’ve moved clearly into a new era, which is the merchants of misinformation or disinformation, I should say. And Trump is very much a part of that. There’s no doubt about it. That is that is a these are coordinated efforts to break up and to squash any real meaningful action on climate change. And the difficulty in part of this is that we’re being made grateful for crumbs. mean, the policymakers and the champions of climate change are not using the analysis, for example, which, that’s been pointed out in the Collision Course and through David’s work, for example, they’re not using that high end risk assessment when they’re looking for creating policy or targets or real advocacy.
And so we are being in the negotiation around with those that are in opposition. We are negotiating at the low end of the spectrum and not where we need to be, which is obviously up at the high end risk level. And so that is just leaving the whole world down a pathway of demise. And that’s the fundamental thing. Again, another reason why do these reports, people will say, ‘Oh, it’s just more doom and gloom.’
But we particularly as advocates and those working in the space and anyone who has strong interest in climate activism, we really need to be well informed so that when we are creating our advocacy, that we’re basing that on, again, high end risk level framing and not this low end stuff which really feeds straight into us just negotiating at a very low end of the spectrum.
There’ll also be a public event as part of the festival with the author of Collision Course held on the 11th of February, the evening of the 11th of February at 7:30pm as part of the festival program, and as a contribution to the report.
Mik:
The Sustainable Hour has another little gift for you. We have created a song called ‘Collision Course’.
SONG
‘Collision Course’ | Download song mp3
La-ya-ya, mo-mo-ya [tribal chants build]
Can you feel it coming?
[Verse 1]
Looking at the sky today
Something’s different in the air
You say I’m just imagining
But these changes follow everywhere
Walking through the empty fields
Where life once used to grow
The signs are getting clearer now
With every passing day
You can’t keep running from the truth
We made our bed, now we must lay
[Chorus]
We’re on a collision course
(Hey-ya, hey-ya)
Nature’s force vs human force
(Hey-ya, hey-ya)
This collision course
Time to change our course
[Verse 2]
Temperature keeps rising high
Waters climbing up the shore
Every season brings us warnings
That we can’t ignore anymore
Mother Earth is speaking loud
Through storm and through decay
[Breakdown]
Ba-da-ya-ya, mo-mo-ya
Ka-li-ya-ya, so-mo-ya
Listen to the rhythm of the Earth
Ba-da-ya-ya, mo-mo-ya
[Bridge]
When we stand as one
(Stand as one)
When we move as one
(Move as one)
When we speak as one
(Speak as one)
Then we’ll find our way
[Chorus]
Turn this collision course (Hey-ya, hey-ya)
Into healing force (Hey-ya, hey-ya)
This collision course (Now we change our course)
This collision course (Together we change our course)
Luke:
You had fun doing that, mate.
Mik:
I did! It’s a bit shocking. All I did was I wrote a prompt of three lines and the lyrics that you heard there was composed by a computer. What I found fascinating was that it came to a conclusion at the end, if you listen to the lyrics, where it’s saying, ‘If we begin to speak with one voice, that is when change will begin to happen.’
And we’ve talked with you, Luke – I remember, year after year about, that thing about that the climate movement is fragmented and it speaks with a thousand voices. There’s still today this need as AI apparently recognises of that we find a way where we begin to speak more with one voice. What’s your comment on that one, Luke?
Luke:
Well, I mean, it’s a tricky one because of course, you know, diversity within the movement is often seen as a very useful thing and clearly it is and, you know, we’re never all going to see eye to eye on every single issue and pathway. And that’s the, you know, that’s the beauty that diversity is part of the beauty of movement. But it’s not working. I mean, we are failing. This is the biggest failure of humanity. That is the reality of where we are at.
So, I mean, I’m not certainly saying you throw out diversity of responses and, you know, you create a system that you don’t hear, you know, many views on things. I mean, of course not. I mean, we need a democratic movement as best that we can form. But the issue of the strength of the movement, the key messages that we need to get out there and the core objectives that we actually need to meet to protect the things that we actually care about aren’t there. They simply don’t exist within the climate movement or within the environment movement. There’s no strong sense of that. That, unfortunately, I think you have to say is the reality.
And so at the moment, while there is this rich tapestry of activity and things going on, not just locally here in Australia, but internationally, and that’s a wonderful thing in some senses, but you have to stop and say, Is that working? And the reality is that it’s not. I mean, as the report just concludes, emissions are going up. Emissions are going up and fossil fuel use is on the rise. Now, we can’t just say, well, that’s good enough. It’s not going to protect the things that we care about. So we have to have a good hard look at what are the things that work well in the movement, what are the things that aren’t working in the movement. And obviously the difficulty of that is coordination. When you have got a very diverse movement is a challenge and we need to find ways of how do you sufficiently coordinate when you do have a diverse movement.
And how do we get to the level now? I mean, we are, are confronted now with what we’re seeing on the rise out of the United States in the last number of months. I mean, this is a significant shift in what’s happening in, if you like, kind of global order. Within minutes, obviously we saw what Trump has done. And, you know, a lot of people say, it’s just gamesmanship and we’ll pass it off and say, We’ll see what happens and what the response of other nations will be and all that sort of stuff…
Well, you know, I think that that’s, sort of making excuses or apologies for things which are now going on. There is a very powerful movement and not to say that it hasn’t always been there. And those that will say that obviously, they’re all corrupt and things like that. I think we need to be a bit more discerning than that. It’s more complex than that just to say, they’re all politicians. Everyone is in the same boat. I don’t buy that. I think you have to be a lot more discerning and a lot more strategic. I’m not presenting that there is a perfect pathway here or there’s a perfect candidate.
There’s issues all along the way, but we have to understand that what we’re doing at the moment is failing dismally. And we need to somehow pull out of this some monumental leadership to really forge a pathway forward and to take it up to the forces that are now against us.
Jingle:
Scott Morrison:
This is coal. Don’t be afraid. Don’t be scared.
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse:
At the heart of this conflict is a battle between truth and science and power and lies.
Mik (at 51:09)
That’s hard to say, but this was all we managed to fit into one hour. It went very quickly and there’s a lot more to say, but luckily there’s another Sustainable Hour next week and next week and next week. We will continue this discussion, Luke, and we hope to have you back for more discussion, especially about this thing: How do we correct this failure of the climate movement as we seeing it? Where does that leadership… – where is it going to come from? And questions like that. A last word to you, Luke, before we round off.
Luke:
Thanks very much. I have to say as much as it is disturbing hearing the songs, very interesting addition into the program today. So I look forward to maybe we could have a battle of the bands between some real artists that Colin might bring onto the show – versus your AI.
Mik:
I think that’s a great idea because we need to be on our toes now with what’s happening to our world, with so much artificial intelligence moving in all sorts of areas, including those that threaten us.
Luke:
Yeah, I think the interesting thing is these, you know, clearly what’s happening with part of, you know, the strategies, not just what’s happening in America, but you know, and it’s an age old thing, right? You know, you prey on the vulnerable. And we are living in this time of change. And vast, obviously, technological change. And that does make people frightened. No, not everybody is about embracing these, you know, what is to some people are quite interesting and fascinating developments in human creation. And so they make a lot of people very worried about this changing world. And so the nostalgia that people like Trump build, create and this sense of a big sort of powerful figure just feeds into people’s vulnerability.
There is definitely, whether it’s economic fear or technological, cultural fear, that’s happening in America in spade loads. And that fed right in, in my view, to the outcome of the decision in America, which was a lot narrower than what we think actually at the end, in my view.
But still, the fact is a vast amount of the population, a large amount of the population did vote for Trump and the preying on the vulnerable in this way, in this fear. And it’s here in Australia. And we are likely to see that play out in the next election. People will just slide into that because they’re looking for a sense of strength and protection. people like Dutton and so forth are of using that and will continue to use that in the coming weeks. And that’s politics.
Mik:
And that’s what the National Sustainability Festival can do its bit to correct, which is bring people together and create a sense of that, ‘Hey! We are actually quite a few who have a different idea about which future we’re heading in.’
Luke:
Absolutely.
Mik: (at 54:52)
We always end with a “Be…”, what’s the Be today? Be on the watch out for misinformation.
Colin:
Yep. And disinformation. Be aware that you can’t trust even when you hear a voice that it might not necessarily be the one that you think it is.
Mik:
But first of all, be engaged.
SONG
‘Starting From Today’ | Download song mp3
[Verse 1]
Looking at your face right now
As you scroll through the headlines
I see the worry in your eyes
About the world we leave behind
And I know you’re wondering
If anyone will make it right
But baby, let me tell you something
That keeps me up at night
There’s still time to change the way
Things are going day by day
And when you feel like giving up
Remember what I say
[Chorus]
I can be that difference
I can be that change
I can be that difference
Starting from today
[Verse 2]
Dad, I’ve seen the videos
Of how things used to be
Clear skies and clean waters
It’s hard to believe
But I’m not just sitting here
Waiting for a miracle
Got my friends beside me now
We’re making it possible
Every small step counts, they say
Little changes pave the way
When it seems too much to bear
Listen close, I swear
[Chorus]
I can be that difference
I can be that change
I can be that difference
Starting from today
We rise together
Hand in hand we’ll find a way
We rise together
Every choice we make today
Shapes tomorrow’s way
I can be that difference
I can be that change
I can be that difference
Starting from today
We rise together
Starting from today
António Guterres, United Nations Secretary-General: (at 58:34)
Who pays the price for climate destruction around the world? Not the fossil fuel industry, pocketing profits and taxpayer subsidies as their products wreck a vogue. Every people suffer, with their lives and livelihoods, with higher insurance premiums, volatile energy bills and higher food prices. Ten years on from the Paris Agreement, 90 per cent of the world has now committed to net zero. But we must work much harder. We need to shift our collective efforts into overdrive and deliver on the goals of the Paris Agreement.
And the math is clear. Global emissions must peak this year and rapidly decline thereafter if you are to have a sliver of hope of limiting long-term global temperature rise to 1.5°C degrees. To those in business, finance and beyond, who remain committed to credible climate action despite all the pressures we are seeing, I say you are on the right side of history. Keep it up. And to governments I say get behind them. Incentivise the green transition and accelerate the shift from voluntary pledges to mandatory rules.
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Events we have talked about in The Sustainable Hour
Events in Victoria
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