Play your part and vote the difference

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The Sustainable Hour no. 545 | Transcript | Podcast notes

As the federal election approaches in Australia, The Sustainable Hour no. 545 dives into democracy, climate leadership, and citizen participation. This episode urges all Australians to be climate voters – to vote the difference.

We speak with Eddie Kowalski, who introduces a bold new initiative: Australia’s first large-scale Online Citizens’ Assembly, offering a digital space for inclusive, deliberative democracy. Drawing inspiration from Taiwan’s success and supported by Stanford technology, the assembly invites all Australians to join national conversations on critical policy topics like nuclear power – just days before the election.
→ Interview audio file, more information and transcript below.

We also hear from John De Lorenzo, independent candidate for the seat of Corio, who shares his climate vision, policy priorities, and motivations for running. Unaligned with any party or big donors, John champions integrity, urgency on climate, and local representation in federal politics.
→ Interview audio file, more information and transcript below.

“I want to represent the people, and the people are telling me that there is an issue. It is cost of living. Energy and environment are really main concerns and what keeps people up at night. We need solutions. We need them now. We can’t wait any longer. We’ve waited too long. I want to be the voice of the people and I want to send a real clear message to Liberal and Labor in Canberra. They cannot continue to just dismiss the people of Australia. They have dismissed the people of Australia for a long time and they have flip-flopped on environmental policy and that has put us behind the eight ball. We need environmentally sustainable energy and we need it today, not tomorrow.”
~ John De Lorenzo, independent candidate for the seat of Corio

Colin Mockett OAM delivers a sobering global update on microplastics in the oceans, offshore wind shutdowns in the US, and mass bleaching on the Great Barrier Reef. You can see the details below in the transcript.

The Hour features two original songs from The Sustainable Hour’s growing music archive:
• Play Your Part – A call to reimagine democracy through citizen dialogue
• Vote The Difference – An anthem for climate-voters ready to make their voices heard

NEW SONGS WE PLAY DURING THIS HOUR

Play Your Part | Lyrics

– a song that celebrates the Online Citizens’ Assembly as a new, fair way to reimagine democracy together.

Vote The Difference | Lyrics

– a song that calls for climate-conscious leadership, action, unity, and a future worth voting for.

TONY’S CONCLUDING REMARKS
How refreshing to hear Eddie Kowalski speak with such authority and conviction about the Online Citizens Assembly initiative which is going to start tonight. It’s not too late to join in via this link. This itineration is going to be a trial. It was so refreshing to hear Eddie speak of its possibilities for the future. We have been banging on about our democracy being captured by big business. Eddie provided us with a definite solution on today’s show and we feel a strong responsibility to be active participants in it. Expect to hear much more about this ongoing process in the weeks and months ahead.

Another thing that stood out today was the importance of actually speaking to candidates rather than just going on their what a pamphlet says about them. John De Lorenzo, the independent candidate for Corio, highlighted that for us today. Some people will have voted already with pre-voting starting yesterday, but there is still another week to go before voting ends on Saturday 3 May 2025.

Until next week: #BeInformed, #VoteYourValues, #VoteTheDifference

Resources and links:
• Register for the Online Citizens’ Assembly: www.crossroadsconversation.com.au
• Climate-focused how-to-vote guides: climatesafety.info
• Explore our unique climate music archive: climatesafety.info/music

“I think we can all agree on the problem that we face as we look towards this election that’s coming up. You know the spectacle of choice that is presented in front of us where we all get to choose our next representatives. We’ve known for some time that democracy has been declining in Australia and globally. Trust in elected officials is at all time lows, trust in political parties. Research shows that only one in five Australians believe politicians are acting in the public interest and only one in four believe that government puts the public before vested interests. So we’ve got huge challenges ahead of us in terms of creating the objectives of democracy which are to ensure that policy decisions reflect the will of the people.”
~ Eddie Kowalski, Online Citizens Assemblies

→ Subscribe to The Sustainable Hour podcast via Apple Podcasts or Spotify

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We at The Sustainable Hour would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we are broadcasting, the Wadawurrung People. We pay our respects to their elders – past, present, and emerging, and extend that respect to all First Nations people.

The traditional custodians lived in harmony with the land for millennia, nurturing it and thriving in often harsh conditions. Their connection to the land was deeply spiritual and sustainable. This land was invaded and stolen from them. It was never ceded. Today, it is increasingly clear that if we are to survive the climate emergency we face, we must learn from their land management practices and cultural wisdom.

True climate justice cannot be achieved until Australia’s First Nations people receive the justice they deserve. When we speak about the future, we must include respect for those yet to be born, the generations to come. As the old saying reminds us: “We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.” It is deeply unfair that decisions to ignore the climate emergency are being made by those who won’t live to face the worst impacts, leaving future generations to bear the burden of their inaction.

“The Indigenous worldview has been marginalised for generations because it was seen as antiquated and unscientific and its ethics of respect for Mother Earth were in conflict with the industrial worldview. But now, in this time of climate change and massive loss of biodiversity, we understand that the Indigenous worldview is neither unscientific nor antiquated, but is, in fact, a source of wisdom that we urgently need.”
~ Robin Wall Kimmerer, weallcanada.org

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Democracy reimagined: rebuilding trust

How to take part
To join this exciting experiment in citizen-powered democracy:

Sign up at www.crossroadsconversation.com.au
Select a date for your small-group deliberation
Join this national assembly on 23 (this evening), 24 (tomorrow) or 26 April 2025, as well as the plenary on 29 April

Participation is open to everyone. No prerequisites. Just bring your voice, your curiosity – and your conviction.

20-minute interview with Eddie Kowalski – and a song

Eddie Kowalski is one of several people working to create what is presently known as the “Online Citizens Assembly”.

The group is led by Professor Joseph Camilleri, an Emeritus Politics Professor at La Trobe University who is one of Australia’s leading International Relations scholars. He has more than 30 years of experience.

Professor Camilleri has pursued a wide range of research interests covering almost the entire gamut of the International Relations discipline. He is also the convener of the Melbourne-based Conversation at the Crossroads.

→ Those keen to make contact with Eddie Kowalski and learn more about the Online Citizens Assembly can do so through his website Our Voice.

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18-minute interview with John De Lorenzo in The Sustainable Hour no. 545

John De Lorenzo is a dad, accountant, business and operations manager, community leader, and recently announced candidate for the federal seat of Corio.

John was born, raised and educated in Colac, rural southwest Victoria. Now proudly calling Geelong home, John has spent decades working in the manufacturing export environment in Geelong, volunteering on School and Health Service Boards. If successful in his election campaign, he’ll be looking forward to representing and advocating for the people of the Corio Electorate.

His campaign outline is here:

John De Lorenzo – House of Representatives Candidate for Corio – is an advocate for real democracy. He is a leader with real-world experience, currently managing a business unit in a manufacturing export business generating over $100 million export revenue annually.

With over 20 years in operations management for export manufacturing businesses and an MBA from Deakin University, John has the skills and experience needed in Canberra. Practical decision-making, financial expertise, and a critical thinking approach to leadership. His experience includes managing resources efficiently to maximise outcomes for businesses and communities, serving on school boards and government-appointed Non-Executive Director of Colac Area Health Board, serving the maximum nine-year term including three years as Board Chair. This experience provided deep firsthand experience of the communities, physical, mental health and aged care needs.

John brings empathy to leadership, with a strong commitment to community, shaped by his rural upbringing and belief in working together for successful progress.

→ Connect with John De Lorenzo on Linkedin and/or Facebook

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Transcript of The Sustainable Hour no. 545

Antonio Guterres, United Nations General-Secretary:
The climate time bomb is ticking.

Jingle:
The Sustainable Hour. For a green, clean, sustainable JGeelong. The Sustainable Hour.

Tony Gleeson:
Welcome to The Sustainable Hour. We’d like to acknowledge the broadcasting from the land of the Wadawurrong people. We pay tribute to the elders – past, present and those that earn that great honour in the future. We’re broadcasting from stolen land, land that was never ceded, always was and always will be First Nations’ land. In the wisdom that they’ve accumulated by nurturing both their land and their community for millennia before their land was stolen lies many of the answers we’re going to need as we navigate the waters of the climate crisis – or the tsunami of the climate crisis.

Mik Aidt:
The race is on and everybody’s talking about it: Who should we vote for? And in particular, here in The Sustainable Hour, we’re talking about: who should we vote for with climate in mind, with sustainability in mind? We have already put a tentative how-to-vote card out for how to vote for the Lower House and we’ll also be putting a how to vote out for the Senate in the coming days – on www.climatesafety.info.

But we’ll also be talking with yet another candidate in The Sustainable Hour today. But first of all, we’ll be talking more at, you could say almost at a higher level about our democracy. So this is certainly a Sustainable Hour that is fired up and getting you hopefully fired up, warming up to the 3rd of May to the Federal Election here in Australia.

But before that, let’s just hear what’s been happening around the world. And as usual for that, we have our man with the global outlook, Colin Mockett OAM. What do you have for us today, Colin?

Colin Mockett’s Global Outlook:
Yes, thank you Mik. And my roundup this week follows on from last week, the Earth Hour program, when if you remember we led with a report that climate change was redefining the relationship between our planet’s land and water masses. In short, the land’s soil is drying out while the oceans are gaining more water. But now a new report published in last weekend’s Age takes the oceans problems further. It points out that new research allows craft and cameras to go deeper into the oceans than ever before. And they are showing that our planet’s oceans acts as a sink for microplastics. Now we’ve known about this for years, of course, with scientists from the CSIRO in 2020 estimating that 14 million tonnes of microplastics are swirling about on the ocean floor.

Now the latest data, which is far more accurate, estimates the amount is slightly lower, at closer to 13 million tonnes. But it shows that we have no method of collecting any of this, and all of this plastic sits at the very bottom of food chains for all of Earth’s creatures.

It also points out that where we are at exploring the oceans is the complete opposite of mankind’s past practice, where we would explore areas and then exploit them for our own benefit. With the oceans, it’s the other way around. We’ve been exploiting them for decades, if not centuries, yet only now are we beginning to explore them. Where the new research will lead, only time will tell, but it’s not looking that good.

Now to New York, where Empire Wind 1, the first project in a massive build-up of offshore wind off the coast of Long Island has been halted by the Trump administration. The project, which was granted a lease from the federal government in 2017, promised to create over 1,500 jobs and ultimately power 500,000 homes by building 54 wind turbines.

But on Wednesday, Interior Secretary Doug Burgum instructed the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management to halt all construction on the project until further review of information takes place. That’s a direct quote. Since taking office in January, President Donald Trump has expressed strong opposition to offshore wind energy, saying that he would not support “big, ugly windmills” that threaten wildlife. In February his administration sacked all national oceanic and atmospheric administration employees who were monitoring the impacts of offshore wind projects on maritime wildlife. On his first day in office the president signed an executive order that suspended the approval process for all new onshore and offshore wind projects. The executive order also directed a review of all existing offshore leases with termination possible.

In other words, the ones that are now pouring electricity into the American grid are likely to be shut down, never mind stopping all the new ones.

A spokesman for Equinor, the Norwegian energy company behind Empire Wind 1, said construction would halt on the project. It’s considering its legal remedies, including appealing the order, and the halting of construction at Empire Wind 1 could lead to further delays for the state’s energy transition. And the Trump administration’s stop work order is also likely to sow uncertainty well beyond the downstate regions of New York.

“We now have a situation where every change in administration could mean the revoking of permits and stop work orders. I think it breaks the certainty that we have moving forward,” said Rob Frydenberg, the Vice President of Energy and Environment Programs in Regional Plan Association. That’s a civic organisation that looks at how to improve the quality of life in the tri-state area of New York. That should reverberate beyond the offshore wind industry itself.

Now, closer to home comes a report that shows the Great Barrier Reef is currently suffering a second bleaching event in as many years, making the sixth event in the past ten years. Authorities and scientists are in unison, reporting corals in distress due to an underwater heat wave stretching 1,300 kilometres from Townsville to Cooktown.

The bleaching not only threatens the health of the reef, it affects its world heritage status, and that in turn affects tourism. And that is why it has become a political matter with candidates for both major parties blaming the others in action in two local seats. The candidates both claim that their parties have the right plan to safeguard the reef’s health while their parties clash over climate science on the side. The climate scientists are saying that neither policies go anywhere near far enough to approach the problem. They’re both putting up band-aid solutions. Now, we should watch this, how all this eventuates over the next couple of weeks, and we will.

And there’s no good news from Forest Green Rovers to end with, Tony. The Easter fixtures out of our domain and the Rovers’ women’s team don’t have a match until next week. So that completes my very watery round up for the week.

. . .

Jingle:
Listen to our Sustainable Hour – for the future.

Tony:
We often speak about our democracy being stolen and we’ve also referred to Citizens’ Assemblies as an attempt to regain some of that stolen democracy. Today we’ve got Eddie Kowalski on. Eddie is at the moment is one of the leading or the driving force behind an online Citizens’ Assembly that’s coming up very soon. So Eddie, thanks for coming on today. It’s appreciated.

Eddie Kowalski:
Thank you Tony. I think we can all agree on the problem that we face as we look towards this election that’s coming up and you know the spectacle of choice that is presented in front of us where we all get to choose our next representatives. We know for some time that democracy has been declining in Australia and globally. Trust in elected officials is at all time lows, trust in political parties.

I can you know sort of let you know that research shows that only one in five Australians believe politicians are acting in the public interest and only one in four believe that government puts the public before vested interests. So we’ve got huge challenges ahead of us in terms of creating the achieving the objectives of democracy which are to ensure that policy decisions reflect the will of the people.

And of course, we’ve got a system of representation that aims to do that through the selection process of representatives in electorates and so forth with three levels of government. But what we can see from the data is that this system is not working very well and has failed to address key policy challenges, namely climate change, cost of living and so forth. But there is a solution.

And we need to look potentially at the market research industry to begin with to look at how businesses use surveys and other forms of feedback in order to create feedback loops that are ongoing that don’t happen only every three four years but that are managed in a very scientific manner and done regularly. That’s one place we can look for for answers another place our countries that have done.

A lot in this space, namely Taiwan, for example, over the last 10 years, many lessons that we can learn from Taiwan and the way that they created avenues for civic participation and engagement. And that is really the, the learnings that we are implementing in this online citizens assembly that we’re organising, which aims to not be something that is offered only to a select few individuals.

but something that is offered to any Australian who wishes to participate. So in terms of addressing these key sort of fundamental problems that we have in our democracy, what we can learn from Taiwan is that by increasing civic engagement and participation through online tools and methods that allow people to have a say, a direct say in policy decision-making, they’ve been able to increase trust in their elected officials from where we are today, which is about 20 per cent to about 70 per cent over a period of five, seven years. They also created the most successful response to COVID, proving that when you create policy co-design mechanisms and install them in your country, not only do you raise the level of engagement and satisfaction among citizens, but you also create policies that are superior.

So Taiwan’s the only nation in the world that was able to increase its GDP through the COVID period. And it did so without any mass lockdowns while achieving some of the lowest death rates anywhere in the world. That’s proof that when you engage the intelligence of your community, it actually leads to better decision-making. And this is what this initiative is all about. We are creating tools and avenues for citizens to get engaged. And we hope that we can build a community of Australians that gets behind this initiative, participate and join us in regular events designed to give them a seat at the table, so to speak, and allow them to review evidence, to have discussions, and to think about the most critical policy decisions the nation faces.

Mik:
So Eddie, I understand Citizens Assembly, the basic idea of it, that there is a very selective way of getting say a hundred people together in a room. That it’s very important that these hundred people really truly represent demographics and the way that the community is put together. know, obviously there would have to be 50-50 in terms of male, female, there would also, let’s say if there were 10 % Croatians in the community, there should also be 10 Croatians in that room because there should be 10 % and so on. How do you manage that aspect in the online version? Do you have criterias how you select the people who can participate there?

So we are doing something quite different to the traditional assembly model that seeks to have only 100 or 200 people involved and create a representative sample. We are opening this up Australia wide with a view that we could host millions of Australians joining conversations that are critical to Australia’s future. For those reasons, there is no criteria that we apply because we don’t want to prevent anyone from participating.

And so it’s a self-selection process, but it’s one that is offered at scale. And if we turn back our minds a little bit to the original practice of democracy that ancient Greeks created, we find that they organised assemblies, ecclesias, on a relatively frequent basis, let’s say monthly, at which every single citizen of the country was invited to participate. Not everyone did, but the option and the choice was there and the opportunity was there for them to do so. That is the original citizens assembly model that the Greeks created. What we are doing, you know, over the past few decades where we have citizens assemblies that use the term assembly.

Is a little different and it’s and you know sortation was used by the Greeks it was used for discussion groups not for the assemblies so. You know if anything we are returning to that original vision of democracy which is to create the ability for every citizen to participate and that’s the only way that we can address the issues around trust and so forth the data clearly show up very problematic it’s by engaging the intelligence of the whole community, which is where all the ideas and expertise lie, not within government.

Mik:
So if I sign up, what will I experience and how long does it take and so on?

Eddie:
Okay, great. So we’ve partnered with Stanford University to utilise technology that they have developed for deliberative democracy. And it will be a Zoom-like interface that breaks up everyone who joins into discussion groups and allows them to follow a set of prompts that guide their discussions among their groups so that they get a chance to express how they feel about things and hear from others.

So that’s the basic sort of technology and format that we will be using. And it will be followed by a plenary session that will be held some days like on the 29th of April, where everyone comes back together. We will review the feedback from all of those conversations. What happens with the Stanford technology is that everything that’s said is transcribed and then compiled into reports so that we can

through the use of AI so that we can then review and understand the sentiments of everyone who has participated. Those will be presented at the plenary session as well as further conversations and ability for people to engage in feedback. So that’s the model that we have in mind and that we will be piloting in April and we invite every Australian who wants to get involved and have a voice and participate in a program that’s really designed to bring new life and inject new life into democracy to do so.

Mik:
On the 29th of April, you say, which is just a couple of days before the actual election?

Eddie:
Absolutely, absolutely. So as you can see in what we’re doing, whilst elections are important, even more important it’s to actually allow people to review evidence, enter discussions and have a say on direct policy decisions.

Mik:
Do you think it would influence the election?

Eddie:
Well, the initial topic that we have chosen for conversation is around the Coalition’s proposal to build nuclear power stations in the country. We chose this simply because we had to pick a topic for the first one and this was something that was being discussed some weeks ago when we had to make the decision. And it’s still relevant because as far as we can tell, it’s still on the agenda for the Coalition, though not discussed in great detail ahead of the election. Don’t know whether that is, you know, by design or what have you. so we’re creating the space for that conversation and inviting people to actually have a say. We will then share all the reports and outcomes from this process with the elected officials, with the media.

The idea behind the exercise that we are coordinating is merely one of bringing people together and then trying to aggregate their views and make those known by the wider community. So everything is going to be shared and we are merely facilitators in a process of democratic dialogue.

Tony:
Sounds very refreshing, Eddie. Now, how do we get signed up to that? Understand there’s a couple of small groups or groups that are going to be broken up into small groups beforehand. When do they occur?

Eddie:
You don’t have to worry about any of that. People just need to register and we will handle the whole, you know, what will happen on the day will be largely automatic and to do with how we’ve set things up with Stanford University. no one has to worry about that, but please do register. You can select to join one of three dates for the for the actual deliberation session according to people’s availability, et cetera. We’ve chosen two weekdays and a Saturday.

And we then have the plenary, which is just one event. So everyone is asked to join that one on the 29th. But yeah, that’s the format. It’s really something that we hope we can then run on a monthly basis in time on all manner of issues, topics and critical conversations that need to be had.

Tony:
Yep, just one last point, Eddie, that I’m thinking, like, the value of the original democracy movement was getting people all in the one place, in the one room, so to speak. And then they could see each other, et cetera, react to one human to human. Will online take that away to some degree?

Eddie:
Well, Tony, you know, the ancient Greeks had, I think, 40,000 citizens. And so there was a possibility of bringing them into the one space. That doesn’t work when you’ve got millions of citizens and where you’ve got a nation that is as big as Australia. There might be in this model, the idea of also joining local conversation groups within each, let’s say, major city. That does bring in additional logistical challenges around hiring those facilities, people needing to travel there, and so forth, which imply that there’s going, you know, quite a significant cost as well.

So, what we’re putting on the table is something that leverages technology to achieve somewhat all of those desired outcomes, but to do so at a very affordable rate. Like, I compare this to the referendum, right? The voice to parliament referendum that cost taxpayers more than $360 million dollars. And it’s effectively it was a single question of do you support or reject this proposal? No further conversation, no dialogue, no interaction, no discussion, no facilitation, no place to go to read all the facts in the one place and three hundred and sixty million dollars.

What we’re creating does not cost $360 million, and I would argue is far superior to a referendum, especially if, obviously, join in and participate through this mechanism because the idea is that it is through participation that we can restore democracy and get to a position where people’s will and people’s views are the driving force behind policy decisions.

Mik:
And it gives a new role for AI, actually a very important one.

Eddie:
An important one. I mean, you know, these technologies are there which, you know, can be used for harm or for good. And in the case of democracy, we can leverage these technologies to assemble and aggregate the perspectives of the multitude of citizens that we have and perform a level of analysis that could not be done without using this kind of technology.

So it’s an important component, as you say, to this. And it’s important for democracy to use the most recent and advancements in technology, rather than this paper and pen based system of turning up to a primary school and casting your vote.

Mik:
The Community Independent movement is very much about listening to the community and representing the community. And I’m imagining… Could this system be used within just one electorate, for instance? So that, let’s say, if a community independent was elected and they really wanted to know: ‘What do they think in my electorate?’, then this system would be the way to find out.

Eddie: (at 24:48)
Sure, yes, I mean, there is no, whilst this first one is a national discussion and I think there needs to, we need to maintain national spaces for discussion and this project will continue from that perspective. There is no barrier to using this at a different scale, whether it’s a state level issue that’s being discussed.

Or whether it is something within an electorate where the entire electorate wants to be facilitated and sort of be, you know, join some level of discussion on one or more topic areas. Absolutely. Yeah.

Mik:
So, say I was a Community Independent or say for instance that Climate 200 wanted to use this system and get all the electorates where there was a Community Independent elected and they want to use it. What’s it going to cost? What is the actual cost of running let’s say one session in one electorate?

Eddie:
Well, Mik, we haven’t done all the numbers on all of this, but we can confirm that everything that we’re doing is leveraging technology to absolutely reduce the costs and make this as feasible as possible and allow us to scale this as much – and infinitely. We can host as many Australians as exist.

So we’re very happy to take this on board and to discuss this with various elected officials or organisations and believe that there definitely is a future in which we can scale this work both at a more local and more at national level too.

In the long term, what we really hope with an initiative like this is that it gets some support from philanthropic organisations that can give us that support to actually communicate this offer to Australians.

And on a more ongoing basis, there might be a community funding model where we crowdfund this exercise. And of course, in the longer term, if government is keen on supporting a healthy democracy, this should be something and could be something that is funded by the community as a whole through the tax system.

But those are the options ahead of us, and we need to explore and find out how things go and things are going to change over time. But in the interim and to begin with, I think philanthropic support and community support are what are going to be needed in order to get this project to a scale that makes the impact that we want to see around Australia and potentially outside of Australia.

Tony:
We pride ourselves here at The Sustainable Hour on giving people hope, and I think we’ve just got that in bucketfuls from you, Eddie. So thank you very much! And we’ll be following that. You can guarantee that we’ll be following through with this and see how it goes. And also sending out this interview to people like Climate 200 and other people that are influential. Because this is really exciting. It gives me so much hope that a system like this evolves, and it just needs… it comes down to numbers really, like everything in politics.

Eddie:
Well, thank you very much for having me. And look, you know, as you said, you know, we all have in front of us as much as we’ve put so much work into the methodology and the technology to facilitate and come together to sort of create this opportunity, we have an enormous communication challenge ahead of us, which is to change the perceptions of what it means to be a citizen and to ensure that all Australians know that this avenue of engagement exists, and to join in and make it their own, because democracy is not owned by anyone, democracy is a process and all that we’re trying to do is facilitate those ambitious outcomes of trying to make sure that all policy decisions reflect the will of the people.

Mik:
For this particular event, then, where do people sign up? Is there a website? How do I, as someone who listening to the sustainable hour right now, how do I get engaged?

Eddie:
Great question, Mik. So head over to Conversations at the Crossroads website where you can find the registration link. And it’s also on the itsourvoice.com website. So both pathways will lead to the same thing.

. . .

SONG (at 29:31)

“Play Your Part”

[Verse 1]
There’s a place on the net, formalised
Where voices gather, side by side
Not by rank, not by name
But by citizen’s right we all can claim

A thread of stories on the line
Each one carried with an open mind
We sit not to shout, not to win
But to listen deep, to let change begin

[Chorus]
Bring your voice and speak from your heart
about the kind of change you want to spark
No gate, no guard, just one condition
Speak on time and speak your conviction

A seat at the table, a space to be heard
A circle that listens to every word
This is the way we defend what is fair
Together with courage, with values and care

Bring your voice, your open heart
Bring your truth, and play your part

[Soft choir]
Reimagining democracy
for both the ‘I’ and the ‘We’
The future of humanity
Guided by insights from you and me

[Verse 2]
Old halls echo with tired debate
But truth walks in when we open the gate
The wisdom we need, it’s not far away
It lives in the hands of everyday

The soil remembers the steps we take
The air is watching the choices we make
And when we ask, the future replies:
“We’re shaped by the dreams you let rise”

[Bridge]
This is no game, no fleeting trend
It’s a road that bends and bends and bends
It’s one we walk not alone, but together
With care for both the land and the weather

[Final Chorus – lifted]
A seat at the table, the circle expands
Got life on this planet in our hands
This is the way we defend what is fair
Together with courage, with values – and care

Bring your voice, your open heart
Bring your truth, and play your part

. . .

Tony: (at 33:07)
Our next guest is John De Lorenzo. John is an independent candidate standing in the Corio electorate. And yeah, so we’d like to welcome you on, John. Thanks very much for your time this morning. Why are you standing?

Thanks very much Tony, Colin and Mik and thanks for the opportunity. Firstly I’d just like to acknowledge the Wadarung people, traditional owners on the land on which we meet and we are talking this morning, their elders past, present and emerging. So I’m John De Lorenzo, I am standing as an independent and as a candidate in the seat of Corio. My whole purpose is to be 100 per cent here for our community. As an independent I’ve got no party lines to run, I’ve got no big donors to please and no lobbyists to follow along with. I’m just a real person with real life experience and I’m ready to fight for a deal for the Corio Electorate.

So I’ve got some experience in my life. I’ve, you know, I served for nine years on the Collier-Garrier Health Board as a director. Three of those years I was the board chair. That’s given me a first-hand insight into health and aged care and the issues going on in that sector. I learned how to advocate for the health service as a director and as a board chair during that time.

And professionally, I’m qualified as an accountant, but I’ve worked in operations management, so I’m a business manager, currently managing a business which has over $100 million annual export revenue annually. So during that I’ve learned to negotiate. I’ve had lots of, I’ve got lots of networks. I’ve had the opportunity to travel to Japan, China and South America and other parts of the world in the industry I’m in. And, you know, I’ve negotiated and done contracts within Australia and international contracts with customers overseas and things like that. And I think that’s, that’s experience that’ll hold me very well sitting in Canberra and negotiating with people trying to get a better deal for the people of Corio. And I want to be someone who can represent all of the electorate of Corio. That’s why I believe that I am an everyone’s person. I’ve lived a real life. And I feel like for some time Corio has been overlooked because it is a safe seat. And sometimes we need a strong independent voice and someone that works just for you and not for a party.

So the time for changes now is my opinion and I’m 100 per cent here for the seat of Corio.

I think what we’re all eager to hear in the sustainable hour is whether you are here for us in the sustainable hour as well in terms of, instance, what are your takes on the climate and the kind of climate action that you would be advocating for should you be elected.

Look at the, I, unlike Mr Dutton, I do believe that the science has been pretty clear and it does tell us where we are. And we need, we’re seeing it every day and in my opinion if we need to do something because every day that’s part of the effects of the cost of living. You know, we’re seeing insurance costs rising, we’re ensuring, you know, infrastructure that’s not standing up and needs to be rebuilt because of the intensity and the change and storms that we’re seeing. So we have to do better at the end of the day.

Colin: (at 36:48)
In which way have we got to do better? I mean, just saying we’ve got to do better isn’t enough. Would you have any plans or any ideas on what we should be doing, especially in the seat of Corio, that would benefit the environment?

John:
Well, you know, I’m in an industry that is all about sustainability and plantations. So we do need to plant more trees. We need to sequester more carbon. We need to ensure that we’ve got renewable energy. We need to change our baseload power source from coal and gas in the longer term. We need a soft transition, though. We need to be able to move to that without crashing the industry and crashing jobs and pushing prices higher.

And we’re working on that and I think there’s been some stagnation obviously in policy and flip-flopping on policy which has delayed some of the action on renewables. we need to, everything needs to be on the table at the end of the day in my opinion so that we can actually have a sustainable transition.

Colin:
Yeah, that’s all well and good, but mean, scientists are telling us that the climate problems we face need urgent action now and not just looking for plans from now. We’ve had 40 years of scientists warning us of what was happening if we were to get to 1.5 degrees warmer, and we’re there now. And we need urgent action now, not talking about it, John.

John: (at 38:27)
Yes, absolutely we do. But unfortunately with the current system of government, there’s no incentive for either of the major parties to do anything genuinely about what’s going on. They’re not representing the community anymore, they’re representing their own interests. And they are beholden to, whether it be big industry or coal, gas and oil and other things that are going on.

Mik:
It’s the big money that sort of defines what they are going to decide, isn’t it? That’s what we’re seeing. And that would be different with you because you’re independent and maybe have more integrity. I say maybe because we’re testing you now. We want to find out if you have that integrity. Why are you not running as a community independent? This whole movement that we’re seeing, for instance, in Corangamite, there is a community independent, which is like backed by a community group.

John:
Look, at the end of day, I probably come to this very late, and I become quite frustrated with what’s happening in Canberra. And I’ve always been someone who you either put up or shut up. I’ve decided to put up. And as an independent and not a back community independent as such.

I’m realising it’s really hard work to get the message out there. You know, it’s just me and a few friends who have been really helpful and I’m really supportive. But it’s more difficult to get the word out there. I haven’t got a budget. I’m self-funded, so you know, I’ve got a very, very meagre budget to put a campaign together. But what I’m finding is when I’m out on the street talking to people is that they’re sick of not having an option either. So in some respect, I feel like, you know, if I can give people an option and potentially send a message to Canberra that they are not listening to the people, they’re not listening to people like you, they’re not listening to people who are fearful for the future, they’re not listening to people who are worried about where we are. And the fact that this flip-flopping around on climate policy over the last 20 years has put us back 20 years in real solutions. And that’s the concern, is that there’s no one holding them to account. They are wherever the money is coming from, that’s where the policy is driven.

Colin:
And yet you’re an accountant. You know where the money’s coming from. It’s coming from the fossil fuel industries and donations to help get the large parties re-elected. How would you change that?

John:
Yes, absolutely.

Colin:
It’s movements like yourself, it’s people power and the only way we’re going to have any real change in Canberra is for a government to have to negotiate with independence, to have a crossbench that is conscious of the environment and aware of where we are and that we haven’t done what we needed to do a long time ago. But we still need to change the system that both major parties are hand in glove with the fossil fuel industry.

John:
Well, the concern is, Colin, and I’m sure you’re well aware of the changes they’re pushing through Parliament which are actually designed to limit minor parties and independents in future elections rigging the system so to speak to actually ensure that they maintain power. So this is the one of the last elections we’re going to have where minor parties and independents and as you say community independents will have a real chance, and we need to actually support community independence and independence across the country that have a conscience and actually support them to give a message to Canberra.

Mik:
Hmm, John, you just went several numbers up on my list as a voter and I am a voter in Corio. I think you’re so right. This is the main reason why we need independents right up there as a real choice, because it can change politics for good.

And it really needs to be changed too. So it’s good on you, people like you for standing on. There’s a lot of, seems to be a lot of confusion around preferential voting. Have you got any advice or suggestions for people that are going to vote in Corio around that?

John (at 42:52)
This is one I’m grappled with, have to say, because my whole preference, my whole reason for standing is to give people a voice and a choice of their own. So to then direct them how to vote is something I’m grappling with. But in order to get in and actually have a say and actually make a difference, I need to get in. So I will be producing a how to vote card with an idea with my idea. It’s not who I’m prefacing as such saying to you this is an example to fill it out correctly so that it is a valid boat but I’m asking you to choose from two to six. Vote me number one yes but you choose who you vote for from two to six and who you want your preferences to flow to.

I’m actually putting an order there.

Well, I’ll have to avoid the potential of having lots of votes that are invalid.

Colin: (at 43:50)
Who have you got at number six? That’s what’s important to me, John.

John:
Well, that’s still, I’m still working through that process. And it might be that I’ll just put from the start at the top and work my way down the ballot. I’m still working through that with some friends and trying to get some thoughts on that. I would like to just say vote me one and then you choose where you go after that. But that raises the concern of then people just putting a one and putting a ballot slip in, which is invalid.

Mik:
I can tell you though that there are a number of community independents around in the country that I have seen put out voting cards just like that. They say put me one and then you decide for the rest. It’s possible to do it. It can be done. Can I just say that with the climate glasses on, which we very much have here in The Sustainable Hour, we have already put out two how-to-vote cards, one for Corio and one for Corangamite, on the www.climatesafety.info website.

And it is, I can tell you, the most popular page. It’s got 600 visitors in the last three days. So that shows that there is an interest in this. And what I haven’t written on the page is that it’s a work in progress. Like just now, we’re having this conversation with you and that has definitely changed how we will be ranking you. You’re going up! Because I actually got the impression from just doing some research on you that you were affiliated with a democracy…. – I can’t remember the exact name – and I read the climate policy of this democracy party and it was not good I thought so I instantly labeled you without having even talked with you and then you sort of went down below. I think that the three Candidates in Corio out of the six who have the strongest climate policies at the moment would be Emily Flynn from the Greens, it would be Sarah Hathway from Socialist Alliance and then you.

John: (at 45:49)
Thank you.

Mik:
You are the three climate warriors out of the six. So who would you put second?

John:
You’re asking all the tough questions and that’s what you’re here to do. So, look, I’m going to have a look now that you’ve actually told me there is independents who are putting out how to vote. I haven’t seen one with no other number on it and I want to have a look at how they look because that was my first preference and, you know, I haven’t got a team. You’re looking at the team.

As I said, I’ve got some great friends who are supporting me, helping me out, but you know, I’m working through these things myself and trying to get out in the community and trying to spread the word. So, you know, I’m still trying to develop these things. I did, as I said, come to it late and you did mention Democracy First and yes, they did. It was some of their writings that actually encouraged me to stand, but more from the perspective of, you know, that it is the last potential election where independents and small parties will have a chance. And we need a change. We need to do something because unfortunately the Liberal Party has been, is so soft, they’re unelectable now and by default the Labor Party will continue to win election after election because there’s no opposition. And… Yes, Colin?

Colin: (at 47:20)
You say you’re getting out into the electorate and talking to people. When you are talking to people, do you bring up climate change or do you just keep on with that mantra that you’ve already said about we need change, of government? Do you put climate change out as a subject when you’re talking to people or do you just bat it back when they give it to you?

John:
I actually want to hear what’s worrying people, what’s keeping people up at night in the electorate because at the end of the day I want to represent the people. It’s not about my opinion, it’s about what the community is suffering with. We hear about the cost of living, we hear about our energy crisis, we hear about our environmental crisis, we hear all these things and people want to know that there’s solutions.

I hear what you said right at the beginning, Colin. It’s nice to talk about these things but what are the solutions and we need action now. We can’t wait another 10 years for action. We’ve wasted 20 years as it is and as you said probably 40 years.

Colin:
Yep. Given that subject, I’ll be very quick, Mik, I know you want to come in. Given that subject, what model of generation of electricity would you back? Would you back, for example, a mix of environmental with batteries? Or would you back? are the other options? Nuclear, let’s put nuclear on the table. What do you think about that?

Maybe it needs to be in the mix for baseload, but ultimately only if it’s sustainable. And that’s the real question. I don’t believe it is at the moment. We haven’t got any such thing as small scale or small modular. That’s not a real reality, unfortunately. But you’ve got water, you’ve got wind, solar. Geothermal is something that needs to be considered. There’s lots of environmentally friendly sustainable biomass bioenergy there is options for some of these that have been used in parts of the world

The obvious ones, the ones backed by science and the ones working everywhere, is solar and wind.

Yes, absolutely. And we have space. We have wind and we have lots of space. We have lots of infrastructure as well. you know, our old electricity networks have lots of infrastructure.

Mik:
John De Lorenzo, you are running in Corio among six candidates. You are independent and now you have, you’ll get the last word here. Just one minute to convince us, the listeners of The Sustainable Hour: why should we vote for you?

John:
Thanks, Mik. I want to represent the people and the people are telling me that there is an issue. is cost of living, there’s energy and this environment are really main concerns and what keeps people up at night. We need solutions. We need them now. We can’t wait any longer. We’ve waited too long. I want to be the voice of the people and I want to send a real clear message to Liberal and Labor in Canberra. They cannot continue to just dismiss the people of Australia. They have dismissed the people of Australia for a long time and they have flip-flopped on environmental policy and that has put us behind the eight ball. We need environmentally sustainable energy and we need it today, not tomorrow.

Jingle:
Scott Morrison:
This is coal. Don’t be afraid!

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse:
At the heart of this conflict is a battle between truth and science and power and lies.

. . .

Mik: (at 51:24)
That’s all we could fit in one very democratic and certainly voter aligned sustainable hour. Election is happening around us and building up to the 3rd of May.

Colin:
All I’ll ask is that each voter looks very carefully at the candidates, looks very carefully at the major parties’ stance on climate action. Believe it or not, putting the last number on your ballot is really important. It is as important as the first number. And I personally will be putting the Liberal National Party’s last because they have in my opinion the worst climate ideas well they haven’t got any ideas apart from nuclear it’s stupid yeah and for me Mick it’s the most exciting thing for me is the initiative the online democracy movement and what’s going to happen there and just listening to what what Eddie said I highly recommend that interview to to people

It’s not just the election and it’s happening just before the election. So it’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out. But it gives everyone the opportunity to have a voice in a different forum, I guess.

And if you as a listener want to, now that you have heard about it, spread the word, we’ve put it out on the website www.climatsafety.info where you can see it as a separate story and even the interview there is there to listen to separately. So you can share it in social media and so on. And also we’ll be uploading, as we learn more about the candidates, we’ll be uploading our how to vote cards that you also find. Just go to climatesafety.info and you’ll be guided in how to vote for the climate. And I think for me, that’s how I would recommend we end this particular hour by saying, Be a climate voter.

Colin: (at 53:32)
Yeah, I’ll go along with that. Vote the difference. Be aware of where all of the parties, all of the candidates stand and vote with that in mind.

Mik:
Vote the difference. Be a climate voter.

. . .

SONG (at 53:52)

“Vote the Difference”

[Verse 1 – soft, close-mic delivery]
They talk in circles, chasing their tails
While the planet burns and the harvest fails
Big money rules, their messages staged
But we’ve switched on, we’re not enraged — we’re engaged

We don’t fall for the tricks or the spin
We cut the strings, we let the truth in
Out on the trail, listening deep
Learning the stories that no one keeps

[Chorus – airy and layered harmonies]
Vote the difference, vote for the Earth
Be a climate voter — know what it’s worth
No more delay, no more disguise
It’s time to stand. It’s time to rise

Vote the difference, hear what’s true
Someone who listens — not just talks through
It’s not about left, it’s not about right
It’s about listening in Corangamite

[Verse 2 – slow pulse builds underneath]
Storms grow stronger, bills climb high
Floods take homes while leaders lie
But something’s stirring, bold and clear
From kitchen tables to volunteer

They shout and spin, distract and sway
But real voices are leading the way
New wind in the wires, new truth in the room
It starts with listening — it starts to bloom

[Chorus – with more drive and layered echo vocals]
Vote the difference, vote for the Earth
Be a climate voter — feel it’s worth
No more delay, no more disguise
We won’t be still, we mobilise

Vote the difference, change the game
Vote for a future we’re proud to name
It’s not about left, it’s not about right
It’s about listening in Corio as well

[Bridge – whispered, minimal]
This is your moment
It’s not red or blue
We challenge the parties
We’re people with view

We don’t need a leader who talks over your head
We need one who listens — who hears what’s being said

[Final Chorus – slow, tender, swelling with emotion]
Vote the difference, vote for the Earth
Be a climate voter — know your worth
No more delay, no more disguise
We rise, we care, we mobilise

Vote the difference, break the mold
Vote for a future that won’t be sold
It’s not about noise or who shouts loud
It’s about listening, and standing proud

[Outro – soft fade]
It starts with one
It starts with you
Vote the difference

Parents for Climate speaker, video clip (at 55:42)
I’m worried about our kids future, the science is clear that burning fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas is making extreme weather events worse and threatening our kids future.

. . .

Sage Lenier:
Linkedin video clip (at 57:31)
If you are someone who literally all you care about is the bottom line, the economics of it, then your prioritisation of short-term shareholder value over the next two years, the next five years, is effectively killing all of us, right? But killing your industry, killing your profits 15 years down the line. So continuing to operate in this way is completely nonsensical because even if you think, well, money is the most important thing here, the money will run out when the food system collapses.

The economy is built on the environment. There’s no such thing as tech, there’s no such thing as fashion, there’s no such thing as buildings without pulling natural resources from the earth. Most of our pharmaceuticals, everything from ibuprofen to insulin came from exotic plants and animals, mushrooms, where they originally found the chemical compound that could help that, and then they extract it and they turn it into a drug and you can buy it at CVS. But everything about everything is built on the environment.

At 2 degrees Celsius, cereal crop yields will fail. We know that for a fact. We also know that we will hit two degrees Celsius while me and Shia are in our 40s. Where we get the majority of the world’s calories is from cereal crops. And so how do you continue to have an economy when you have mass malnourishment and potentially mass starvation? There is no economy beyond that. People can’t work. If you are someone who literally all you care about is the bottom line, the economics of it, then your prioritisation of short-term shareholder value over the next two years, the next five years, is effectively killing all of us, right? But killing your industry, killing your profits 15 years down the line.

Charles Eisenstein:
A real community is a gift economy where you can help your neighbor or help somebody in the community, give something to them, and they don’t pay you, but they feel gratitude towards you. So they want to do something for you too. They want to take care of you too. Or even if they have nothing to give to you, somebody else in the community sees that you’re being generous.

And so the community takes care of you. And if you’re not generous, if you’re really selfish, then no one wants to take care of you either. So in a gift culture, the more you give, the richer you are, which is kind of the opposite of a money culture.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Events we have talked about in The Sustainable Hour

Events in Victoria

The following is a collation of Victorian climate change events, activities, seminars, exhibitions, meetings and protests. Most are free, many ask for RSVP (which lets the organising group know how many to expect), some ask for donations to cover expenses, and a few require registration and fees. This calendar is provided as a free service by volunteers of the Victorian Climate Action Network. Information is as accurate as possible, but changes may occur.

Petitions

→ List of running petitions where we encourage you to add your name

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Live-streaming on Wednesdays

The Sustainable Hour is streamed live on the Internet and broadcasted on FM airwaves in the Geelong region every Wednesday from 11am to 12pm (Melbourne time).

→ To listen to the program on your computer or phone, click here – or go to www.947thepulse.com where you then click on ‘Listen Live’ on the right.

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Podcast archive

Over 570 hours of sustainable podcasts.

Listen to all of The Sustainable Hour radio shows as well as special Regenerative Hours and Climate Revolution episodes in full length.

→ Archive on climatesafety.info – with additional links
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