Reboot of the entire human operating system

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THE CLIMATE REVOLUTION PODCAST EPISODE 9:

Welcome to the ninth edition of our podcast series, The Climate Revolution, with Sue Barrett.

At a time when the world desperately needs leadership on the environment and climate change, the most powerful nation has chosen to download and launch ‘Trump 2.0.’

“Humanity’s operating system has been infected”, says Sue Barrett, “but it’s not beyond saving.”

Sue is an Australian business strategist, educator, and community independent advocate based in Goldstein, Melbourne. Her perspective echoes a sentiment recently expressed by former American President Joe Biden, who said that “Americans are being buried under an avalanche of misinformation and disinformation enabling the abuse of power.”

Enter: the reboot of the human operating system.

But how is that done? Sue Barrett has some ideas and suggestions. And this is where The Climate Revolution gets exciting.

Sue explains: “Reasonable people can act as the anti-virus – removing the malware of pathocracy and authoritarianism, and restoring justice, decency, and collaboration.”

While humanity grapples with its own systemic failures, the natural world is sending urgent distress signals. Fires and floods are the collapsing pillars of our biosphere. Two of our world’s most critical systems are failing simultaneously. The question is: Do we still have time to act?

Sue Barrett believes we do – but only if we act now. She outlines the urgent to-do list as follows:

Steps to reboot humanity’s operating system

Install integrity
Rebuild a system corrupted by greed and disinformation. Support community independents and leaders who prioritise accountability, fairness, and sustainability.
Eliminate disinformation
Challenge lies and propaganda wherever they arise – even in your own circles. Speak up for truth and justice.
Strengthen networks
Collaborate with community groups, activist networks, and organisations fighting for climate action and justice.
Upgrade to ethical systems
Redirect your spending to businesses that prioritise sustainability and human rights.
Demand environmental security
Hold corporations and governments accountable. Advocate for policies that protect the planet over profits.
Share the update
Stay informed and help others see through disinformation by spreading knowledge and awareness.
Reclaim humanity
Reasonable people have toppled tyranny throughout history. Now is the time to rise together and act decisively.

Wokeness as humanity’s anti-virus

Rutger Bregman reminds us that humanity’s natural state is one of kindness and cooperation.

“Wokeness isn’t a virus, as Elon Musk claims,” says Sue Barrett. “It’s a modern term for universal values – the very anti-virus we need to restore fairness, strengthen our defences, and protect us from division and greed.”

“Community independents aren’t just a moment; they are a movement – an antidote to everything we’re up against. Will we rise together to reboot humanity and build a better world? History is watching. Let’s ensure it remembers us as the generation that acted – not just for ourselves, but for all of humanity.”

Sue Barrett – as she is being interviewed for The Climate Revolution episode

About Sue Barrett

Based in Melbourne, Sue Barrett is a pioneering voice in human-centred communication and collaboration. With decades of experience as a business leader, consultant, and advocate, Sue is dedicated to helping individuals and organisations engage, communicate, lead, and sell with purpose and effectiveness. She is the founder and CEO of Barrett Consulting, a company that specialises in ethical sales, leadership development, and strategic growth.

Beyond her professional ventures, Sue has been a driving force in grassroots democracy movements, including her work with Voices of Goldstein, where she supported efforts to champion integrity, inclusivity, and stronger community representation in Australian politics. Through her leadership and advocacy, Sue inspires meaningful conversations and practical solutions for fair work practices, inclusive societies, and healthier democracies. Explore her insights on Substack.

The election at the End of the World

Dollars & Sense podcast: In the wake of the catastrophic LA fires, how do the Australian major parties shape up on climate policy?

→ Listen on Apple Podcasts or watch on Youtube

Support the Community Independent of Corangamite

The Community Independent mobilisation is in motion in one of Geelong’s two electorates, where a fundraising campaign has been launched. More here

MISINFORMATION

→ The New Daily – 21 January 2025:
Misinformation warning ahead of federal election
“Voters have been warned to expect more disinformation being used at the upcoming federal election. Australia’s Election Integrity Assurance Taskforce has urged voters to be wary of claims being spread online in the lead-up to the poll, while also expressing concern about the threat of foreign interference.”

→ TED Countdown | Vidhya Ramalingam – October 2024:
The real-world danger of online myths
“How do we protect ourselves from being misled online? Counter-terrorism expert Vidhya Ramalingam reveals how disinformation is weaponized to justify violence — increasingly against climate scientists — and introduces a powerful tool called “prebunking”: a proactive approach that empowers people to recognize and reject manipulative messages before they take root.” 339,699 views

→ The Independent – 21 January 2025:
How Elon Musk’s radicalisation can be pinpointed to a single event
“Experts warn that the owner of X is being radicalised by his own platform.”

→ World Economic Forum – 15 January 2025:
Global Risks Report 2025
“These are the biggest risks we face now and in the next 10 years.”

→ Sydney Morning Herald – 13 January 2025:
Disinformation reigns as bushfires devastate California
“As entire communities in Los Angeles were being engulfed by hurricane-force firestorms that ignited last week, pugilistic right-wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones posted a video on X, formerly Twitter. “Los Angeles Fires Are Part Of A Larger Globalist Plot To Wage Economic Warfare & Deindustrialize The Untied [sic] States Before Triggering Total Collapse,” he wrote.”

→ Australian Firefighters Climate Alliance – 11 January 2025:
LA fire misinformation campaign goes into hyperdrive

→ Medium – Ketan Joshi – 16 October 2018:
Why Australia is the perfect mark for toxic, trolling Neo-Nazi memes
“Every little instance of white supremacy is realised through a toxic and poisonous mode of speech that rots the common faith we hold in language and meaning. It keeps happening. And it’s happened again.”

Greenpeace: ‘We’re done with the gaslighting’

Still in 2025, climate denial and lies are widely distributed on large networks such as Microsoft’s MSN

Sometimes you just have to giggle. What do you think made me a radical extreme communist? Working as a corporate lawyer? Advising Australia’s biggest companies at BCG? A strategic role at Australia’s then biggest employer, Wesfarmers? The actual radical extreme communists must be horrified! #auspol

[image or embed]
— Kate Chaney MP (@katechaneymp.bsky.social) January 26, 2025 at 2:34 PM

“Waking up to learn you’ve been turned into a viral meme isn’t as glamorous as it sounds!
In my latest TEDx talk, I share what it was like to become the target of Elon Musk — with his trolls not far behind. This experience helped me understand a larger trend: one where the rich and powerful attempt to demonise activists in order to evade accountability. Take a look and let me know what you think.”
~ Clover Hogan

Disinformation spreading like a virus

“This is not mismanagement – this is perfect administrative, economic, industrial sabotage,” Alex Jones said in a video he posted on X. “This is murder, this is destruction, this is scorched earth; this is siege by design. So this is a designed economic warfare system that they’ve been developing really since the 50s in the globalist publications and battle plans … and they call it the rewilding, the deindustrialisation plan 1992, Rio de Janeiro, the Earth Summit.”

By Jones’ account, the deadly bushfires in California were part of a globalist plot to collapse American society and, indeed, the entire Western world.

From AI-generated fake images to organised campaigns spreading falsehoods, disinformation is a growing threat to democracy and trust. Studies show it spreads just like a virus, making it harder than ever to decipher fact from fiction.

But we’re not powerless. Inoculating people with critical thinking tools can help stop the spread of lies.

Hear from ACF’s Director of Engagement, Jane Gardener, how disinformation is shaping the world and how to combat it with an “Anti-disinformation booster shot.”

To learn more about what ACF is doing to combat disinformation, head to our website where you can find quizzes on how to prepare and educate yourself when it comes to nuclear and climate crisis disinformation and fake news.

→ ACF resources to counter disinformation

Commercial media more susceptible to vested interests?
“New research from Monash Uni suggests that Australians who get most of their news from commercial sources – TV and radio, not including public broadcasters like ABC or SBS – are more likely to believe in climate conspiracy. They also scored lower on the “civic value” scale, ostensibly a belief and trust in democratic institutions.

It’s interesting for a couple of reasons: Does it speak to the idea that commercial media is more susceptible to vested interests? Does it represent an ideological bias of different generations?

At a time when social media giants are dropping fact-checking and climate journalism is struggling to cut through (and our looming federal election is already muddied by climate denialism) it’s vital we pay attention to the details and work on keeping the facts science-aligned and front of mind.”
~ Lucy at Work for Climate

“America is fortunate to have a leader who puts cost of living, industry and the country ahead of this nonsense climate rubbish. The climate has changed since the dawn of time and people have had stuff all to do with it. Hopefully Dutton follows suit with Trump”.
~ Comment in social media

TRUMP

→ The Guardian – 24 January 2025:
Big oil spent $445m in last election cycle to influence Trump and Congress, report says
“Investments ‘likely to pay dividends’, analysis says, as Trump unleashes dozens of pro-fossil fuel executive actions.”

→ The Guardian Australia – 21 January 2025:
Trump sworn in as 47th president as US braces for a new era of disruption and division
“Trump promises a blitz of executive orders, radical shake-up of the global order and ‘revolution of common sense’.”

→ Timothy Snyder – 21 January 2025:
Twenty Lessons On Tyranny
“From the Twentieth Century.”

→ BBC – 8 January 2025:
From Trump to a ‘game-changing’ lawsuit: Seven big climate and nature moments coming in 2025
“Some key events coming up in 2025 have game-changing potential for our planet. Here, two of the BBC’s environment journalists analyse what they could mean for the climate and nature.”

This is about systems
World-famous science fiction author Kim Stanley Robinson recently talked with the Danish newspaper editor Rune Lykkeberg about the fires in Los Angeles, President Trump as a clown in a soap opera, and how we will solve the climate crisis.

“This is not good,” says Kim Stanley Robinson, interrupting himself after a long rant against Donald Trump: “I’m sitting here as an American describing my president as a fool, as an evil idiot. It’s a bad situation.”

Robinson has just explained that Trump is a soap opera clown. He doesn’t care what happens in real life if he can just win on screen. A man who loves lying and pushing boundaries because it gets him attention. A politician who, with his almost lecherous declarations of love for oil, makes it very easy for anyone who simply cannot see the climate crisis and disasters as a narrative about our energy consumption to suppress reality and continue burning it all down. When he shouts ‘drill, baby, drill’ for oil, it’s like a battle cry to supporters: ‘Screw the climate.’

But it’s no use just throwing negative adjectives at Trump, Robinson emphasises. “This isn’t about people, even though Trump wants everything to be about himself. It is about systems.“
~ Rune Lykkeberg, Editor-in-Chief at the Danish newspaper Information

→ The Daily Newspaper Information – 24 January 2025:
Kim Stanley Robinson: The climate crisis is a gift to all who seek meaning in life

Your voice doesn’t matter—money does
A study by Princeton and Northwestern professors analyzed 20 years of data from nearly 2,000 public opinion surveys and found that the preferences of average Americans have “near-zero, statistically non-significant” impact on U.S. laws.

Instead, wealthy elites and powerful interest groups call the shots. And if you think that’s just theory, look around: the election of Trump and the rise of billionaires like Elon Musk to positions of massive influence show exactly what this study warned us about.

The reality? Americans aren’t living in a democracy—they’re living in a system rigged by money and power.

It’s time to wake up and take action. We must take collective action for systemic change.

Link to article and study here:

Article:
Study: Congress literally doesn’t care what you think

Study:
Cambridge University Press – 18 September 2014:
Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens

“Trump is the symptom. Not the dicease.”
~ Chris Hedges, How Fascism Came

Socrates on wealth and moral corruption: A reflection on leadership and society

Socrates predicts that oligarchy cannot sustain itself. By exalting wealth over moral character, it invites disorder, inequality, and the eventual rise of demagogues who promise to restore fairness while further consolidating power. The lesson he offers is clear: when material riches become the ultimate goal, the moral foundations of society are at risk, and the justice needed to sustain a healthy polity begins to unravel.

Socrates was a real historical figure—an Athenian philosopher who lived from around 470 to 399 BCE—known for his unique method of questioning and dialogue. However Socrates left no written works, so our understanding of his thought comes largely through the Greek writer Plato. In Plato’s works, Socrates serves as both a teacher and a character through whom Plato explores complex ideas about justice, ethics, knowledge, and the nature of reality.

In The Republic, Plato’s Socrates discusses the different forms of government and their vulnerabilities. His observations on oligarchy—a system where the wealthy hold power—are strikingly relevant when considering the dynamics of contemporary political systems. Socrates suggests that in an oligarchic society, the prioritisation of wealth inevitably undermines virtue and justice, creating fertile ground for moral decay and eventual societal collapse.

Socrates begins his critique by examining how an oligarchic state emerges. He describes it as a system where wealth becomes the central value, overtaking the pursuit of virtue:

“…the change from timocracy to oligarchy is brought about by this: that the treasury is emptied by rulers who are not true guardians, the people are burdened with taxes, and these measures are taken in order to enrich themselves and their families. And then, too, by paying what is due in accordance with wealth, rather than worth, such a city becomes an oligarchy.” (Book VIII, 550c)

In an oligarchy, wealth dictates governance, and those without it—often the majority—are excluded from power. Socrates observes that this system sets a dangerous precedent where material riches replace moral character as the measure of a person’s value:

“…what was once esteemed, courage and virtue, no longer holds sway, but money is honored above all. This, then, is the way oligarchies come to be: they make wealth the standard of worth, and by doing so they divide the city into two—one the city of the rich, the other of the poor, dwelling in the same place but always plotting against one another.” (Book VIII, 551a)

The result is not only a divided society but also one riddled with moral corruption. Rulers prioritize their financial interests, leaving the city’s broader welfare neglected. Justice is no longer a guiding principle; instead, it becomes a tool of the wealthy to protect their assets. Socrates warns that this system inevitably undermines both the individuals who lead and the society they govern, eroding trust and stability. He notes:

“…an oligarchic man is one who desires wealth so strongly that he ceases to care for virtue. He may still speak of justice, but his heart is tied to gain, and from such a man the city takes its character.” (Book VIII, 553a)

Ultimately, Socrates predicts that oligarchy cannot sustain itself. By exalting wealth over moral character, it invites disorder, inequality, and the eventual rise of demagogues who promise to restore fairness while further consolidating power. The lesson he offers is clear: when material riches become the ultimate goal, the moral foundations of society are at risk, and the justice needed to sustain a healthy polity begins to unravel.

The Potsdam Institute has estimated that 2°C degrees of global warming could generate economic losses as high as US$38 trillion annually by 2050.

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Climate Insights from Davos from We Don’t Have Time

Is it time to cancel Cancel Culture?
→ Download a free chapter of “Cancel Culture in Climate”.

While some bow to Trump, leaders step up
The spectacle of tech billionaires standing side by side at Donald Trump’s inauguration last week was dismaying for anyone who opposes the new US president’s policies. Shortly after Google, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, Uber, Ericsson, Spotify and other tech companies with public climate commitments contributed millions of dollars to his inaugural fund, the new president signed executive orders to withdraw the US from the Paris Agreement, open up land and sea to new drilling, and block offshore windfarms.

Michael Bloomberg, 13th richest person alive, former mayor of New York City, and longtime Trump rival, is taking a different approach. He announced Thursday that Bloomberg Philanthropies with other organizations would step in to cover the funding gap left by the United States to the UNFCCC, among other efforts to keep the country in compliance with its climate commitments.

While this act alone does not compensate for the absence of the world’s largest economy in the fight against climate change, it is indicative of the general sentiment that was on display last week in Davos. Leaders from around the world, in both the public and private sectors, are intent on ensuring that Trump cannot derail the global climate movement.

You can witness this unwavering spirit in action through all our Davos 2025 broadcasts .. Additionally, we’ve now published a series of interviews with leaders from Davos, offering unique insights into how they’re navigating sustainability challenges in a turbulent world:

Karolina Lisslö Gylfe, Secretary General & Executive Director, WePlanet
Philip Ajina, Founding Partner & Chief Investment Officer, Infranode
Angela Hultberg, Global Sustainability Director, Kearney
Robert Metzke, Global Head of Sustainability, Philips
Carl-Johan Hellner, Executive Board Member, COO Ports and Group Strategy, Stena Line
Deepak Chopra, MD, FACP, FRCP, The Chopra Foundation
Abdul Aziz bin Ali Al Nuaimi, The Green Sheik
Adam Kahane, Author, Collaborating with the Enemy

The stakes are too high, and the momentum is too great.

“No more nibbling around the edges. It’s time to flip the entire system.”
~ Kasper Benjamin Reimer Bjørkskov on linkedin.com

Full transcript

Joe Biden, former American president:
Americans are being buried under an avalanche of misinformation and disinformation enabling the abuse of power. The free press is crumbling. Editors are disappearing. Social media is giving up on fact-checking. Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power, and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy.

Antonio Guterres, Secretary-General, United Nations:
We are rapidly reaching the point of no return for the planet.

Marvel Movie clip – Kaorg speaks with Thor, who asks:
‘How did you end up in here?’ ‘Oh, well, I tried to start a revolution but didn’t print enough pamphlets. So hardly anyone turned up, except for my mum and her boyfriend who I hate. But I’m actually organising another revolution – don’t know if you’d be interested in something like that? Do you reckon you’d be interested?

Female voice:
The climate revolution

Mik Aidt: (at 00:51)
Welcome to the ninth edition of our podcast series, The Climate Revolution. At a time when the world more than ever needs leadership on climate, what happens?

Donald Trump, newly elected American president:
We will drill, baby, drill.

Mik:
The most powerful nation in the world decides to download and launch Trump 2.0.

Movie scene:
“How bad is it?”
“That’s the problem, sir. We don’t know.”

Newsreader at 7NEWS on 16 January 2025: (at 01:26)
Severe thunderstorms have smashed Sydney and parts of New South Wales, leaving one man dead and thousands of homes and businesses without power.

Local resident in 7NEWS report:
I’ve never seen anything happen like that before my life.

Newsreader at BBC News on 24 January 2025 about Storm Éowyn:
A red warning is in place for the entire country. Here, it’s being called the storm of the century.

Newsreader at NBC News on 25 January 2025:
Southern California is experiencing what experts call extreme drought. San Diego recording its driest start to winter in recorded history.

Antonio Guterres, Secretary-General, speaking at United Nations general assembly:
Who pays the price for climate destruction around the world? Not the fossil fuel industry, pocketing profits and taxpayer subsidies as their products wreck a vogue. Every people suffer, with their lives and livelihoods, with higher insurance premiums, volatile energy bills and higher food prices.

Ban ki-Moon, former Secretary-General, United Nations:
We need a revolution. Revolutionary thinking, revolutionary action.

Movie clip: ‘Oppenheimer’ at 42:30:
“Everything is changing, Robert.”
“Having a child was always going to change.”
“No, the world, it’s pivoting in some new direction. It’s reforming. This is your moment.”

Movie clip: Monty Python: ‘The Holy Grail’:
“You seek the Holy Grail?”
“That is our quest. To find the Holy Grail.”
“Yes, it is.” “Yep”
“And so we are looking for it.”
“Year, year!”
“We have been for some time.”
“Ages!”

Mik:
So, enter: The reboot of the entire human operating system. How do we reboot the human operating system you may ask? Well, Sue Barrett has been putting some thoughts into just that. Sue Barrett is an Australian business strategist and educator who is engaged in politics and democracy as well as a community independent advocate and organiser based in Goldstein, Melbourne. She says, similar to what we heard the former American President Joe Biden telling the world: Humanity’s operating system has been infected, but it’s not beyond saving. And this is where the climate revolution gets really interesting.

Sue Barrett:
Research in sociology, psychology and evolutionary biology actually shows that humans are hardwired to work together, share resources and build systems based on trust and mutual benefit. It’s actually how we’ve survived and thrived for millennia.

But the current system has been corrupted. And this sort of fair collaborative operating system that’s held us together pretty much through all sorts of traumas and challenges and events is now riddled with viruses. And I’ve put that in terms of neoliberalism, the corporatisation of pretty much every aspect of our life, the erosion of democratic institutions, the rise of authoritarianism, and in particular the excessive power of tech billionaires who have hijacked the system.

I’m referring to this actually, and it’s not just me, but many others, as the second Gilded Age. A tiny group of elites are hoarding wealth and power while the rest of us actually are struggling, particularly with growing inequality, climate breakdown, and of course, they’re weaponising social trust by weakening it.

And they’re distracting us and Musk, for example, has coined the term the woke mind virus and he’s weaponising that to make sure that we feel fearful, that it deflects attention away from their exploitation of resources and power and basically trying to undermine this operating system of fairness and accountability that actually has protected us. the systems, mean, systems are complex.

And that’s the problem because a lot of people out there throw simplistic answers to complex situations and issues. And they’re always wrong because a system is very, very complex, particularly human operating system. But the most dangerous thing about that human operating system that really brings it down is corruption. And we’re seeing that on a massive scale. So like a computer that’s infected with malware.

Society often continues to run, albeit sluggishly, while the damage actually spreads underneath. we’ve kind of, the last 40 years, we’ve kind of reached peak kind of infection.

Movie clip: ‘American Primeval’:
“Mr. Reed, can we get out of here?”

Sue:
I don’t know if your listeners are aware, but of course, unlike supermarkets, pharmacies, and any other businesses in Australia, electoral material, like political advertising, actually doesn’t have to be truthful. Basically, they can avoid the traditional advertising rules the rest of us have to abide by and actually get away with just spreading lies and disinformation. And what they do then is by having these sort of clickbait headlines and things that are set to enrage people to actually ignite kind of really gut reactions, fear-based reactions.

This is how people who want to divide us, divide us. This is how they create misunderstandings, people get scared of the other. They don’t want us coming together and working and operating together collectively. Sure, there’s plenty of differences in the world, but the things that we share in common are far greater than the differences any human has with any other human. But they don’t want you to know that.

Movie clip: The Hunger Games – Mockingjay Part 1, 07:34 (at 07:14):
“I know their system very well. I managed to break through. All we need now is the perfect message.”
“So we’re gonna shoot a series of propaganda clips. Spreads the word. And we’re gonna stoke the fire in this rebellion.

Sue:
They want you to be scared. They want you to be frightened. They want you to doubt others, et cetera.

Movie clip: The Witcher – Season 1 Episode 1, 06:20 (at 07:37):
“More and more I find monsters wherever I go.”

Sue:
I read this really interesting story about this history teacher who is teaching their students about the Salem Witch Trials [which occurred in 1692 in colonial Massachusetts, where over 200 people were accused, and 20 were executed.]

And he said, ‘Right, what I’m going to do is I’m going to whisper to in your ear, each of you, whether you’re a witch or just a regular person.’ So he went around and whispered into every student’s ear, whether they’re a witch or not. And then the game was whoever had a witch in their group would lose. Okay?

And so this teacher set the activity up, and off the students went. And of course, eventually what started to happen is these little cliques would form and groups would happen and bigger groups and then they’d split because they’re all looking at each other, not believing each other and being very wary of each other. Anyway, they stopped the experiment, and then the teacher asked the students: ‘Hands up in the room who was classified as a witch’. And no one was classified as a witch.

This just shows you as a very simple but profound example what this kind of social media, this advertising, these click baits, this propaganda, these lies, this disinformation does to the human being. What it does to us is it makes us fearful. And then we look at everyone else as if they’re the witch. And they’re not.

And so I just think that our operating system has been… the human operating system, as I said, it’s been infected by incredible powerful people.

And we’ve seen signs of this in the past when the human operating system has been hacked, right? The rise of fascism in the 1930s… Basically, fascist leaders like Adolf Hitler exploited social instability, they spread lies and division and they gained power. But I want you to know this because my husband, who’s German, took us to the documentation center in Nuremberg, which is on the Nazi rallying grounds. And this museum documents the rise and the Second World War and the fall of the Third Reich. And I was there on the 1st of January 2017, that’s when I was there last. And what particularly had me just stand back and go, ‘My God, we’re here again!’ was reading all about and listening to the complicit nature of mainstream media, not just the German mainstream media, but media worldwide, big business and certain public service institutions like the railways who got behind Hitler and the Third Reich.

And when you watch all of that and you see what they did to propagandise the population, this is history repeating itself and people don’t seem to understand that.

With these actions, we will begin the complete restoration of America and the revolution of common sense. It’s just that now with social media and the Internet, it’s on massive scale. And the problem that we had was that a lot of decent people back then and now didn’t know about the system, didn’t understand what levers were being pulled and got sucked in to this propaganda machine and then made decisions about how they voted and what they did that ultimately ended up backfiring badly.

I don’t know if you’re aware, Mik, but after Trump got elected the second time, apparently the most searched terms on the Internet in the U.S. just after the 5th of November election was, ‘What is the tariff?’ and ‘How can I change my vote?’

And this is the thing: when you don’t read beyond the headline and you don’t dive into the details and you don’t sit back and understand what’s happening, because that’s the other thing. All of this clickbait stuff that’s being thrown at us is designed for us to react immediately and become outraged and do this and do that and look at the other with, know, cautious eyes and weariness.

What we have to learn to do is be more discerning and that is to, whenever we see something, rather than react in a gut way is to stop, take a deep breath and think, I wonder why this is here? What are they trying to do with this? What’s actually happening? Is this real? Is this a lie? Is this useful? Is this harmful? These are the sorts of things we have to do.

But if you’re not working like that as a human and you’re under pressure, under stress or whatever, or just don’t know how to handle yourself and navigate your way through this complex, complex world that we live in, I can understand why people react from a gut perspective. But one of the things we could do in Australia, at least from a political standpoint, is actually bring laws that demand truth and political advertising. And that’s where our Community Independents, particularly I know Zoe Daniel, who you know I’m associated with, is very much advocating for truth in political advertising. Because as I said, every other business, an institution in this country has to abide by that except the political parties and politicians. It’s crazy.

Peter Dutton, opposition leader, at a media conference on 20 January 2025:
Well, I’ve never seen somebody so incapable of making a decision.

Sue:
I mean, I’ve always had this saying in my business and in life, watch who you let near your mind. Because the other thing, the way the brain is wired, it’s wired for risk, risky stuff.

It’s wired for, know, metaphorically the grizzly bears. If a grizzly bear appeared, you know, you’ve got to react and, you know, know, save your life. But this is where these bad actors are preying on this. They’re putting up information and it’s not actually information, it’s disinformation, which is lies and propaganda to prey on our, you know, gut response rather than actually educate the populace to help them understand and how to make informed and good decisions for their own best interest. Like I said, these oligarchs, authoritarians, demagogues, coal industry, fossil fuel industry, you name it, they don’t want their money-making operating system disrupted. So they would rather throw us all to climate disaster just for profit, money and power.

Scott Morrison, former Australian Prime Minister:
“This is coal. Don’t be afraid.”

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse:
“At the heart of this conflict is a battle between truth and science and power and lies.”

Sue:
And so I’m sorry, but I’m not putting up with this. And I think if we can learn as humans how to be more discerning and what is effective, we can actually make better decisions and not fall prey to the bad, you know, acts and actors that actually don’t care about us at all.

Movie clip: ‘Encounter’, 50:05:
You have to ask yourself, Professor, when faced with the unknown, do you step away from the void? Or do you dive in?

Mik: (at 15:21)
So I would like to introduce you to Aaron Regenberg. The first time I heard about him was in the podcast Planet Critical run by Rachel Donald up in the UK. She did an interview with this lawyer, American lawyer, who’s working for Public Citizen. Speaking of the fossil fuel industry, he is someone who’s trying to actually do something when it comes to the lies and the way that we are being manipulated by the fossil fuel industry.

Aaron Regenberg, interviewed by Rachel Donald in Planet: Critical podcast:
It’s not the case that like, there is no alternative world we could be living in where my son wasn’t looking down the barrel of an unlivable future right now. The world has come together to solve big problems like humanity can do that. We did it with ozone. We’ve done it with other things, and we didn’t do it here because there were specific decisions and specific reckless or dishonest conduct by specific corporate actors and individuals.

I’m with this organisation, Public Citizen, that has been working to develop the sort of legal theory and case for criminally prosecuting big oil companies for the harms from climate-related disasters. The reason that we’re doing that is because we just… I don’t think you can say that these are just tragedies, you know, as people across our country are losing their homes, losing their livelihoods, losing loved ones, you know, mothers or fathers or daughters or sons. It’s tragic, but it’s not just a tragedy. These are the effects of specific decisions, specific reckless conduct by a relatively small number of actors, of corporations and individuals leading them, who knew what they were doing and predicted exactly those consequences and went ahead and did it anyway and made ungodly amounts of wealth doing it and continue to do it, continue to double down, continue to make bank off of that misconduct.

And so we’re in a situation where we need to be talking about accountability and we need to be talking about justice. And from our perspective, we need to be talking about criminal justice because a lot of that conduct in relation to the harms that it’s created, we think constitute criminal offenses.

I think it is becoming clearer and clearer. Like it was not that long ago that climate change was mostly talked about as this like problem for the future, right? It’s a problem for our kids. And again, I think we are seeing more and more that is not as much the framework and paradigm because we’re seeing the real material consequences every day. We’re seeing the fires, we’re seeing the floods.

We’re seeing the extreme heat that’s killing hundreds and hundreds of people. And so I think it is becoming very, very, it is becoming hard to deny that climate change is a public safety threat, right? It’s arguably the greatest public safety threat we’ve ever seen.

And so I think it’s becoming an easier case to make that there should be a public safety response, right?

The reason ostensibly that we have criminal law is to protect us from dangerous actors that would do us harm. And so we all think it’s crazy to say, what if we use this system that has disproportionately been used to target poor folks in communities of color, but what if we used it instead to protect our communities from the powerful corporate actors that are endangering us more than anyone else at this point? And the fact that we have on the books right now, multiple criminal laws that we think do a really great job of describing and proscribing precisely the conduct of big oil companies.

Again, not to downplay the challenges, but we think we need to be talking about this and exploring it. I think that there’s a real chance that we’re going to see criminal climate prosecutions and that it could play a real role in protecting communities as the criminal law is supposed to do.

Mik:
Sue Barrett, the reason I wanted you to hear this and our listeners to hear this is, to me, this is a great example that there are good people in this world who are working on the kind of stuff that you’re talking about, The movement is there and it just makes so much sense what Aaron Regenberg here is talking about. What do you think?

Sue:
Oh, as I was listening to that, Mik, I just kept nodding and nodding and nodding and nodding.

And back earlier this month, from the 5th of January, I wrote an article called ‘When Leaders Act Like Dogs and a Time Without Shame’. And everything he’s saying is in fact what this article was also referring to. So there’s an old saying that goes back in ancient wisdom and all sorts of traditions called ‘There Will Come a Time When There Is No Shame and Leaders Will Act Like Dogs’. And what it basically means is that it captures the deep malaise many societies experience when power is divorced from ethics.

And leaders act not as stewards of their people, but as opportunists and sycophants who are driven by personal gain rather than the public good. I mean, that’s what he’s just described, right? And in contemporary times, our times, this warning is prescient because how else can we describe a world where billionaires, oligarchs and criminal figures like convicted criminal figures like Donald Trump can ascend to positions of immense influence and power?

How does it actually explain political parties morphing into influencer marketing machines, serving donors and special interests instead of their constituents? And what of the mainstream media who are complicit in sensationalising this conflict, normalising corruption, and often failing to hold power to account? This is where we’re kind of at, which is why we need to reboot the human operating system.

And we know the corrupting force of money in politics. We know how this actually affects us, but also too, as I said, party politics is sort of kind of the rise of the influencer machine. It’s more of a branding exercise than actually delivering clear policies. And so it’s a problem that, you know, the behaviors of politicians have sort of been coming more like reality TV stars than legislators.

So this is why, you know, this is why I’ve and me and many thousands of other people have put their efforts into changing, at least in Australia, the two major party system. We’re looking at that Community independents model to bring back accountable politicians into the fray.

And the good news is, just so you know, talking about things to do, is that at the 2025 federal election, there are now 30 community-backed independent candidates running in seats across the country like and this includes the incumbents like Zoe and Monique Ryan and Zali Steggall and the like but there are now 30 running across the country that is a fifth of the House of Representatives that’s huge.

So Community Independents isn’t a moment – it’s a movement. And it’s an antidote to exactly what Aaron, myself, you and I were talking about now.

But I would like to bring something up as well if we come back to universal values, because wokeness is really just a modern term for universal values that we, know, most humans hold true and want to actually see embodied in their environments and their communities.

Joe Biden:
Today, oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy.

Sue:
I want to bring back the role of shame as a moral break because shame when properly understood is actually a critical moral break that helps prevent harmful actions and actually fosters accountability. We’re not talking about shaming people for being different or for their personal circumstances. That’s toxic shame. But we’re talking about societal expectation that leaders and individuals act with integrity and in the public interest. Healthy shame which is what I’m focused on, operates as an internal guide reminding people of their responsibilities and the consequences of their actions. So in many ways, the erosion of shame among leaders has paved the way for shameless pursuit of power, wealth, and self-interest. So when figures like Musk and Trump act without regard for the norms and ethical boundaries that actually hold society together, they set a precedence for others to do the same.

And without the moral restraint that shame actually provides, leaders are emboldened to manipulate, exploit, and deceive with impunity. So I think we should be reintroducing the concept of shame grounded in accountability and respect for others, because it’s vital to restoring trust and integrity in public life. And so I think this is where we want to really look at this sort of challenge and this opportunity, because shamelessness is what we’re witnessing. Okay, I’m not about toxic shame. That’s not right. It’s very distressing and very damaging to people. That’s not what is.

But shamelessness, this is what we’re seeing. A world of shamelessness where these people just think they can do anything and the media have let them loose. So the role of mainstream media who should be, if you look at the principles of journalism, the watchdog of democracy have in many ways also become complicit in this unraveling.

So for example, sensationalism sells and complex truths don’t even generate clicks. So this is why people are reading beyond these sensationalist headlines. They just make a decision based on some click bait and the media’s particularly mainstream media is focused on personalities over policies, conflict over consensus and scandal over substance has actually created an environment where these demagogues are thriving.

So by platforming these lies and giving undue attention to these bad actors, the media actually then normalises this behaviour. And for every investigative report that exposes the corruption, there are countless hours of free air time given to every, you know, the very figures that are undermining democracy. The result, a public that is increasingly disillusioned, confused and disengaged.

And this is where you have this, you know, this moral bankruptcy creates then the problems. Now, there might, people might find this interesting too, because this is not just, you know, me having a bit of a whinge about this or whatever. There is a lot of really smart, capable, amazing people, past and present, who are doing incredible work and have done incredible work to help us understand our complex human operating system.

One of them is psychologist Albert Bandura, whose work on moral disengagement – please everyone search up moral disengagement – provides critical insights into this crisis that we’re facing.

Moral disengagement actually refers to the psychological process by which individuals then rationalise unethical behaviour, making it acceptable in their own minds. So they justify it to themselves. ‘Yeah, that’s fine.’ Leaders, corporations and mainstream media particularly as well often use the mechanism of moral disengagement to justify harmful actions. So that’s from dehumanising marginalised groups to framing destructive policies as a necessary evil.

The process allows them to actually act without guilt or shame and this then perpetuates further corruption and injustice. So if people can understand this phenomenon, it’s key to addressing the root cause of current moral and political decline.

So that’s just something I think the term study, go and study moral disengagement, that’s really important. The other one that I want to, a couple of other things, there’s another amazing, he’s now, Bender only died actually a couple of years ago, Karl Popper died last century, but Karl Popper is a philosopher who warned us amongst other things about what we call the paradox of tolerance.

And basically what this means is if a society tolerates the intolerant, it will destroy tolerance itself. Okay. So it allows extremists to spread lies and dismantle democratic norms. And basically what happens is these people rely on us kind of giving up and surrendering, and then we end up in barbarism basically.

Politicians who accuse others of wokeness, for example, reveal more about their true intentions and own fears of accountability and change than the people they’re actually criticising. Such attacks are desperate attempts to actually shield themselves from the scrutiny of a fairer, more just society. So to me, you know, the antivirus system, you know, like wokeness are actually designed to protect us from these sorts of threats.

Defending wokeness isn’t about being overly sensitive. It’s about preserving the fairness, collaboration and justice that, you know, make societies function. So we’ve got moral disengagement, we’ve got Karl Popper’s The Paradox of Tolerance.

And the other thing I want to introduce people to, and just to let them know that, interestingly enough, historian Rutger Bergman, who’s alive and well, wrote an amazing book called ‘Humankind – a hopeful history’. And what this book does and his work and the work I do in my professional life and community work reminds us that humans are wired for kindness and cooperation. That’s our fundamental operating system.

Look, there are the extremes, but the majority of people are wired for this. So far from being that selfish or cruel individual that, you know, certain economists and people like to promote, the majority of people are decent and actually want to help others.

This is actually our greatest strength and the ultimate defensed against the virus of another concept I’m coming to called pathocracy. But kindness alone isn’t enough. Like in the operating system, humanity needs maintenance and updates to actually stay healthy. So we need to make sure that we can ensure that we are energised and capable to confront injustices and hold power to account and stay vigilant to emerging threats.

So let me just talk a little bit about pathocracy. Kind of… this one sort of summarises it, sort of where we’re at, particularly with the rise of all the demagogues and, you authoritarians.

There’s a concept called pathocracy. And pathocracy was actually developed by a psychologist called, let me pronounce his name correctly… Andrzej Wolbachewski is Polish and he actually fought, he was part of the Polish resistance in World War II. And he describes pathocracy as a system of governance hijacked by individuals with pathological traits such as narcissism, psychopathy, sadism, Machiavellianism, and of course a distinct lack of empathy.

His experiences resisting the brutal Nazi regime actually gave him first-hand insight into how authoritarian leaders manipulate societies, exploiting fear, division and disinformation to seize and maintain power. He observed that these so-called pathriquets thrive in environments of chaos and mistrust, systemically dismantling institutions of fairness and justice, while consolidating control for their own gain.

Does this sound familiar? Yeah.

It gets even more interesting. Like a virus infecting a healthy system, they disable society’s natural defenses. That’s its trust, collaboration, and accountability, and redirect its resources to serve their destructive agendas. Alright? His work offers a chilling warning.

Societies can be corrupted from within when power falls into the hands of individuals driven by greed and cruelty rather than empathy and decency. Importantly, these pathocrats are a vocal minority. Here’s this. Studies show that individuals who seek to dismantle justice, equality, and sustainability represent no more than 10 to 15 per cent of the world’s population. So they’re the minority. However, they rely on our apathy. They rely on our silence and our inaction, that of the majority, to maintain their grip on power.

So by creating division and fostering mistrust, they actually then weaken the collective resolve that we need to challenge their control. So as I said, the Second Gilded Age is a prime example of pathocracy in action with the tech billionaires dominating public discourse, corporations rewriting laws in their favour, and democratic institutions being eroded by lobbying and disinformation campaigns.

These forces actually exploit humanity’s operating system, draining resources and destabilising society for profit only. So that’s why I’ve been writing all of these articles.

It’s not that I am anywhere near as clever as the people that I’m quoting and putting forward to you, but I’m trying to join the dots of our operating system. And there’s other dots I haven’t even touched on today, but I thought this might be useful for people to think about what can you do because no one’s coming to save the majority. Right? No one’s coming to save us. We have to save ourselves.

And whilst we’re not the sort of, most of people aren’t the sort of people that would stand up and rally and, you know, be, you know, go out there and, you know, stand at, you know, whatever it is. We have to, and we have to find ways that we are going to hold these people to account. One of the ways, not the only way, but one of the ways is who we vote for. And that we actually are really clear about what we are buying into because we don’t want after Australia’s 2025 federal election to have people google ‘how can I change my vote’ if, you know, people who get into power don’t serve our interests who are more akin to what I’ve just described as that pathocracy.

So there’s a couple of things that we can look at because it’s a big system. It can seem overwhelming, but I always live my life by these three questions:

What can I control? What can I influence? And what’s outside of my control?

And I always focus on the first two and then take action, but keeping in mind of these bigger systemic kind of things. So one of the things I do is write and speak and set up community campaigns and lead and educate and, you know, try to be the best role model I can be for these sorts of things.

So I don’t sit back just musing and writing. I put all of this as best I can into business and societal action and help mobilise people so that they don’t feel helpless because the antidote to helpfulness is hope. And if we look at this as really important information that we can then factor in and protect ourselves from the disinformation stream, you know, and then take better actions and work together and see beyond division.

It’s very hard to hold back against the forces. There’s a great picture. It says, don’t panic, organise. And the picture is the top level. There’s two sets of the picture. Don’t panic. It’s like this big shark or big fish coming after all these little fish, right? Don’t panic. And then the second picture is the school of fish massing together, chasing the big fish. And that’s the organised bit. I hope that makes sense for people in explaining it. So don’t panic. Organise everyone, you know, get yourselves together and see what happens. Anyway, we can talk in more depth about some of the practicalities, but I thought I just want to set those things up.

So as a reminder: moral disengagement, study that! The paradox of tolerance, study that! Study the fact that humans are by nature kind and cooperative. And the fourth thing is understand pathocracy and its impact on our world and then get organised and get active.

Mik:
I do feel talking about rebooting humanity, we need a little bit of a manual, don’t we? We need to have some sort of… Here’s step one, this is step two, here comes step three, and so on. What are your thoughts about how we approach this in the best way? Where do we start? For instance, when you talk about getting organised, yes, that sounds all good and true, but how is it done?

Sue:
Well, that’s exactly right. So you can’t organise around nothing. There’s an old saying, If you don’t know where you’re going, every road will lead you nowhere. So decide what bit you can control and influence. Alright? Because there’s many aspects to the operating system.

So let’s think about government, for example. So we’ve got local government, state government, federal government. They’re the institutions that are meant to be representing the people. Okay?

So you have to be able to first scrutinise and you could use the information of moral disengagement. So if you use the filters of moral disengagement, you can assess actually the effectiveness or not in terms of how corrupt or ineffective they are. You can actually assess how morally engaged or disengaged politicians are and the parties are.

So number one: Make sure you know what good looks like and what it doesn’t look like and assess. Then make your voice heard with these people. Demand better. They rely on us being too busy and too distracted and not able to do, just do something. Write letters to them, talk to them, make sure that they know that you’re onto them if they’re not actually standing up for the values that you want. Now, whether they listen to you or not is another thing, but that’s a test as well, a test of character. So that’s one thing.

Second thing is that you can do in that space is if you don’t like what you’re seeing and they’re not representing the broader community’s values and actions and principles and policies you want, start a Voices-of group in your local area. You could do that at local government level, state level, federal level start to understand that.

You also need to probably update our understanding of the software on civics and how politics and government actually work. The level of education in Australia on civics and democracy is very, very poor. The biggest group of people that are being targeted by these bad actors are the disengaged voters, and they’re very vulnerable to being tricked with this lack of truth and political advertising.

So educate yourself on civics.

Then, as I said, if you want to do something because the politicians that are meant to be representing you aren’t, start a voices of group at whatever level that you need to. listen to those people, run kitchen table conversations, talk to people about what’s important to them, help everyone understand what we have in common and then look at the things that we share together, regardless of our religion, our ethnicity, our cult, whatever it is, it doesn’t matter.

What is it that we care about and how do we want government to better represent us and have our voices heard? So start, there’s a lot of great information on the Community Independents Project. If people type that in to their Google search bar, you’ll find it. And there’s lots of great advice there about how to start Voices-of groups and get something going.

And that’s why it’s amazing because the first Community Independent that got elected was Cathy McGowan back in 2013 up in the regional Victorian seat of Indi. And they had just had enough with their local member who hadn’t listened at all and was very party politically oriented. And so they started getting together and lo and behold, it wasn’t by much, but they actually shifted a seat that had been in the Liberal Party’s hands forever, basically.

And then Cathy went on and got greater margin the next round in 2016. So there’s one seat that was turned through community activation. And the changes that have happened there have been fantastic. They’ve got the things that they needed for their local community, plus also working with the national agency in mind.

In 2019, Cathy retired and Indi put forward Helen Haynes, who got elected and with even a greater majority in indict. But at the same time, Zali Steggall was found stood against Tony Abbott in the Sydney seat of Waringa and she ousted Prime Minister Tony Abbott. OK? And so what you’ve got there is you’ve got actually two seats in 2019. Then in 2022, another six seats came along, so it made eight. You can start to see what’s happening.

This election cycle a lot of people have been paying attention to this because they’re frustrated like many of us that their voices aren’t being heard and they’re witnessing the degradation of our democratic institutions. So at the next federal election, as I mentioned at the beginning of the program, there are going to be at least 30 community-backed independent candidates running at the next federal election in 2025. That’s a fifth of the House of Representatives seats. Okay? It’s across the country. This is not just in certain large states. This is everywhere.

So have a look at that! There are more Voices-of groups than there are Community Independents standing because there are other communities that aren’t ready to have a candidate yet, but they’re getting ready for the next election 2028, whenever that is. This is how you can start a movement. This is how you can get things happening. You can learn from all sorts of amazing people now part of this. There are now tens if not hundreds of thousands of people now around Australia who are making a stand.

Margaret Thatcher, speaking at the UN General Assembly in 1989:
Reason is humanity’s special gift. It allows us to understand the structure of the nucleus. It enables us to explore the heavens. It helps us to conquer disease. Now we must use our reason to find a way in which we could live with nature, and not dominate nature.

Sue:
So don’t worry, you’re not alone. There’s lots of great support. There’s that. Sorry to take so long on that, but it is a huge lever shifter. It really shifts all the dial, whatever metaphor I’m using. And then as part of that, what you’re doing is reinstalling integrity back into a system that’s being corrupted.

And this is why supporting Community Independents and other leaders who prioritise accountability, fairness and sustainability as part of their work for their communities and constituents is a huge lever shifter. What we also want to do is eliminate disinformation. So if you encounter lies or injustice, don’t just accept it, speak up about it. That’s what I do. I look at evidence, I look at stuff.

And this is why I write, you know, the things that I write because I’m looking at, I don’t want people just to go, this is how it is. No, it’s not. You don’t have to stay like this. So we need to challenge the propaganda even in our own circles.

Now, one of the ways to challenge it is not to say, you’re wrong, because that’s not going to get you anywhere. One of the best ways to challenge it is ask questions: ‘That’s really interesting, Mik. Tell me more about that! What are your thoughts on this? And where did you get this information from? I’d like to understand more.’

Hear what they have to say. Because what often comes out is they don’t know how to talk about it. And it might just be a bit of a clickbait kind of thing. And they’ve just been reacting to it. And if you can, unpack it further and just start having conversations and be more curious and interested, rather than judgmental. So try to be neutral even though I know sometimes inside you want to just know kind of go just slap him on the face about something. Like how could you believe that? Try to just to take a breath and listen.

I have found when I listen to people and I ask them to explain what they mean by something, tell me bit more about that, I’m curious how did you come to that conclusion? Oftentimes that opens up space for then you to share some concepts and ideas and they go, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Yeah, I know it’s interesting, isn’t it? And just don’t tell them to change their mind because that’s a hiding to nothing. Just ask questions and see what happens.

And then if you have interesting fact-based, evidence-based information that is written in a way that they can relate to, just share stuff with them and invite their feedback on it.

Mik:
This is so important. You don’t change people’s minds by telling them what to do or coming with a lifted finger and all that. No, Active Listening – there is that concept of Active Listening. Psychologists use that as a way to get people to change their mind.

Sue:
I’d like to build on active listening to also ‘reflective listening’. Reflective listening is when you reflect back what they’ve said to you. So that is actually a very interesting concept that if you say, so Mik, what I hear you saying is this and reflect it back to them. Sometimes for some people, in fact, not just sometimes quite a lot, it’s like, ‘No, I didn’t mean that’.

And that, and you go, ‘Okay, what did you mean?’ And then it gives them this chance to verbalise and cause a lot of them haven’t actually thought about the concept in a coherent way or even the consequences of this, but you just start asking.

So I found that as one of the things, and this is the thing, these air games that these bad actors are playing by filling out inboxes and know, feeds and thingies with just crap. One of the best antidotes to that is a human to human conversation.

So we need to reconnect, you know. With this whole social media connection, we’re lonelier than ever. So actually, the antidote for this is to get out and go for a walk with someone, have a conversation.

The next thing would be, and that’s how you can actually eliminate disinformation. The next one would be then to strengthen your networks.

So join forces with community groups, active networks, organisations that are standing up for and fighting for justice, climate action and equality. Join those groups, have conversations with them and start working on how you can get your voices heard and people can see what you’re doing is more visible. I think we need to upgrade the ethical systems that we operate by.

So I think we could shift our focus to spending our money with businesses that actually prioritise sustainability and human rights. I’m not talking the green washing, human washing businesses, but the ones who genuinely are looking at supply chains and eliminating modern slavery and that kind of, no, that takes a bit of work. But running human centered businesses, which is what I’ve been working with and advocating for over 30 years with my business is very profitable.

When you have businesses that operate, you know, work well together, collaborate, prioritise collaboration, not just, you know, sort of, you know, competition. And so they actually work and provide really great human centred experiences for their clients and then staff and suppliers. They are much more robust and successful.

So that whole ethos and practicality about running good businesses. So whether you’re a customer, a worker, a supplier, whatever it is, think about the businesses that you work with and how you operate together as a unit and as a system.

And then also too, I think we need to demand environmental security. So comes back to Aaron’s comments. We need to use the law, the laws that exist to hold corporations and governments accountable for their role in the climate crisis. We need to advocate for policies that prioritise our planet over profit. So we need to use the law where we can to, whether it’s class actions or whatever it might be to, you know. And I’m not a lawyer, I’m a science graduate by background in medical science subjects and things like that. But sometimes I’m lying awake at night, I’m thinking, ‘Wouldn’t it be amazing if we could just take them to court and they would actually be held accountable and forced to change?’ and all that kind of stuff.

And we can do that. It’s that we need a political system that will back that up and support it. And we need people to actually demand attention. I don’t know if people can remember.

But back on the 15th of March 2021, I was part of the organising leadership group that helped create March for Justice, where we were standing up. We wanted to end gendered violence and stand up for women’s rights and equality. And that was an idea 14 days earlier. I went from an idea to 110,000 people turning up to 200 locations at Monday lunchtime around Australia to protest against that. That was incredible.

I made sure the messaging was very human-centered and inclusive and I wanted it to speak to people who were so frustrated but they didn’t know how to act. And so your messaging is very important. It can’t be divisive. It has to be invitational, inclusive, focused and intentional. And honestly, that event has actually kick-started and changed a whole host of systems in Australia. So do not underestimate the power of people to come together but you have to have a clear purpose, good messaging, and it needs to be something that is easy for people to start to participate in.

And then like what we’re doing here, share the update, stay informed, spread the knowledge, help others see through the disinformation. The fact that you’ve invited me here today to talk about, you know, upgrading, you know, operates human operating system is exactly this example. And podcasts are very popular.

So we want to make sure that we have really good content we can share with people. And I think that this really allows us the opportunity to strengthen our defences, restore fairness, and protect us from the forces of division and greed. Does that help?

Mik:
Absolutely. It is about restoring trust, I think. That’s a very big one. And in particular, restoring trust in that human beings are fundamentally good beings.

Sue:
Yes.

Mik:
That we aren’t born evil. We aren’t born to be trying to cheat each other. And there so many of us that we can, if we spoke up, we can actually change the name of the game.

Sue:
Exactly. I mean, look, there is that small percentage of people who are wired differently from the majority of the human population, okay, but no one is born racist. No one is born sexist, right? No one is born with misogyny. No one’s born that way.

We’re taught those things. And if you can learn them, you can unlearn them. And this is what’s really important that, you know, by being able to look at, you know, and this term, wokeness, as I mentioned earlier, it’s just a modern term for universal values that we all share, regardless of whichever tradition in religion or culture we come from.

When we look at these universal values, we look at them, wokeness and the golden rule, for example, you can see it written across all sorts of books of wisdom, all sorts of religions. It is interesting, isn’t it, that we have all these different religions, but at the core fundamental of this is, you know, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That is essentially a cross written in however, you know, whatever way, but in each of these areas. So it’s Islam, it’s Christianity, it’s Judaism, it’s Buddhism, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And even if you’re not religious, it’s in human-centered values, so the humanist society, the same sort of things there. And there’s also the value of justice across cultures as well. Social justice is also seen as an important value across all kinds of cultures because that’s how we operate well. And empathy and compassion, why do we encourage people to be empathetic and compassionate? Because they’re universal pillars of humanity.

And sustainability is about a shared responsibility about how we live together. So we have to challenge the division that’s being created at the moment by a few who just want money over and power over everything else. And we need to challenge this division through our shared values and build a bridge to a better future.

And when we come together and we have human to human conversations and we listen to each other and we find out what’s important and how we’re feeling and we tap into our natural capabilities of curiosity, helpfulness and fairness, guess what? There is very little difference at all and we can really help each other move forward and I will see out the rest of my life fighting for this.

Movie clip: (at 55:56)
“All revolutions seem impossible until they are inevitable.”

Ian Bremmer, Eurasia Group, G Zero Media:
With Trump coming in and talk of drill baby drill, of course there’s going to be more support for fossil fuel producers in the United States that are already producing at record levels. So that’s not going to move all that much in the near term. More importantly is that the scale of transition energy investment and the prices coming down is already sufficiently great around the world that it’s unstoppable politically, the global energy transition is continuing and actually speeding up.

Kumi Naidoo in Climate Curious podcast, 2025 vision board: (at 56:40)
We can make love our revolution. In the moment of history that we find ourselves in, pessimism is a luxury we simply cannot afford. And the pessimism that justifiably emerges from our analysis, our lived experiences, and our observations can, must, and should be responded to by the optimism of our thought, creativity, courage, actions, and our sense of humanity.
We can make love our revolution. We can make love our revolution.

Jonathan Foley in Climate Curious podcast, 2025 vision board: (at 57:30)
Hi, I’m John Foley and I’m the Executive Director of Project Drawdown. For 2025, I’m thinking about rebooting climate leadership around the world. Why? Well, I just don’t think we can afford to leave the fate of the world to the UN and elected politicians anymore. It’s just not working. Vested interests are running the table. It’s like that old definition of insanity, doing something wrong again and again, expecting a different result.

Maybe we need a more expansive vision of climate leadership now, one that embraces leaders from grassroots communities, cities and states and provinces, but also from business, philanthropy and investing, people who can basically move capital and move people far better than elected politicians have done so far, and also to shift the future of technology, behavior, culture and science to a better place.

In other words, we need a bigger view of the climate chessboard, looking at all the players and all the moves we can make.

And if we rethink our approach to climate leadership in 2025, I think it could be the year we start to accelerate meaningful action again, catch up for some of the lost time we have, and start building the future we want and the world future generations deserve.

Movie clip: ‘Black Sails’, Season 2 Episode 1, 52:15sec:
“The relentless pursuit of a better world… great men don’t give up that pursuit. They don’t know how. And that is what makes them invincible.”

Movie clip:
“This revolution is about everyone. It’s about all of us, and we need a voice.”

Sir David Attenborough, in BBC’s ‘Greta Thunberg: A Year to Change the World’: (at 59:02)
There just could be a change in moral attitude from people worldwide, politicians worldwide, to see that self-interest is for the past, common interest is for the future.

Mik: (at 59:29)
If you want to be part of the climate revolution, find your role. Contribute with what you think you’re good at. My name is Mik Aidt and you can reach me on the email address mikaidt@climatsafety.info

Movie clip:
“All revolutions seem impossible until they are inevitable.”

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The Climate Revolution: Find your role

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Steps to reboot humanity’s operating system

Wokeness as humanity’s anti-virus

About Sue Barrett

Further reading from Sue Barrett

Other content featured in this episode:

INDEX – Content of this podcast episode

Social media posts about this episode

Music in this episode

Listening tip

INSPIRATIONAL

The election at the End of the World

Support the Community Independent of Corangamite

MISINFORMATION

Greenpeace: ‘We’re done with the gaslighting’

Disinformation spreading like a virus

TRUMP

Socrates on wealth and moral corruption: A reflection on leadership and society

The Potsdam Institute has estimated that 2°C degrees of global warming could generate economic losses as high as US$38 trillion annually by 2050.

Full transcript​

Other episodes in The Climate Revolution series

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Like this:

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Full transcript