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The Sustainable Hour no. 522 | Transcript | Podcast notes
Our guest in The Sustainable Hour no. 522 is Gregory Andrews, who just completed an unassisted ride across Australia on his e-bike.
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“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
~ Buckminster Fuller, American architect, writer and futurist (1895-1983)
This week’s show involves discussion about the importance of positive messaging around what the green transition could look like. Our guest honestly explains his concerns for the world in which his two teenage sons will grow up and what he does to ease these concerns.
We hear more about the continual occurrence of fossil fuelled extreme weather events, this time focussing on the death and destruction caused in the southern states of the USA by the most intense hurricane to make landfall ever.
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Gregory Andrews, 56, is a proud D’harawal man, former Ambassador and Threatened Species Commissioner, and most importantly, a dad who’s really worried about the impacts of climate change on his kids and country.
Last year he undertook a 16-day hunger strike in front of Parliament in Canberra to protest the Albanese-Marles government’s lack of real action on climate.
Now Gregory has just completed an unassisted ride across Australia from Perth to Sydney on his e-bike to demystify some falsehoods about using renewable electricity powered modes of transport across the vast distances we have in this country. The ride of almost 5,000 kilometres took him five weeks. “It was a combination of achievement and joy,” he tells us. “This is one of the best things I ever did in my life.”
→ You can read more about Gregory’s e-bike adventure on www.lyrebirddreaming.com/ebike4australia and on his blogpost from 19 September 2024: I Made It 4,970km Across Australia: Outcomes And Thanks
→ Gregory Andrews’ Linkedin profile and Linkedin posts – X profile – Facebook profile
“My hunger strike felt powerful, but it was negative. Like I was emphasising a negative story about what was happening. My bike ride felt like a journey that was promoting something positive.”
~ Gregory Andrews, former diplomat and hunger striker for climate, who just completed a ride on an e-bike across Australia
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What a joyful experience it is to listen to Gregory Andrews on the show today. Like so many of us, he is honest about the climate grief he experiences all the time. However, like so many of our guests, this hasn’t stopped him from finding a way to act out these concerns. Next year he plans to do a similar e-bike ride from South to North to challenge the idea of the same government’s toxic idea of a “gas led recovery”.
There are people like Gregory all over the world, and it’s our great pleasure to shine extra lumens on their stories each week. We’ll be back next with more of the same. What is your way of acting out your climate concerns and becoming part of the green shift?
“I’m starting to plan my next long distance ride. I haven’t decided but I’m thinking I should ride and maybe get people to join me this time and do a Ride Against Gas from Adelaide to Darwin, because Adelaide is where Santos is based, which is one of our two big gas companies, and Darwin is where all these projects are occurring that the scientists are calling ‘carbon bombs’ that will wreck our future.”
~ Gregory Andrews, former diplomat and hunger striker for climate, who just completed a ride on an e-bike across Australia
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We at The Sustainable Hour would like to pay our respect to the traditional custodians of the land on which we
are broadcasting, the Wathaurong People, and pay our respect to their elders, past, present and future.
The traditional owners lived in harmony with the land. They nurtured it and thrived in often harsh conditions for millennia before they were invaded. Their land was then stolen from them – it wasn’t ceded. It is becoming more and more obvious that, if we are to survive the climate emergency we are facing, we have much to learn from their land management practices.
Our battle for climate justice won’t be won until our First Nations brothers and sisters have their true justice. When we talk about the future, it means extending our respect to those children not yet born, the generations of the future – remembering the old saying that, “We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors. We borrow it from our children.”
The decisions currently being made around Australia to ignore the climate emergency are being made by those who won’t be around by the time the worst effects hit home. How disrespectful and unfair is that?
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“I am beyond frustrated. Yesterday our Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek posted Bilby shots while also approving 1.3 billion tonnes of coal extra emissions. That equates to the yearly emissions of 65 million Australian families. In the face of the escalating climate crisis, it would be funny if it wasn’t so insulting to all of us, especially to our children and the future of all species. I called the Minister’s office on (02) 6277 7920 and left a message about how deeply sad I am about her continued coal and gas approvals and to say that I find the Bilby selfies insulting in this context.”
~ Gregory Andrews
“The duplicity and Minister with photos of cute animals facing extinction — in many cases due to fossil fuel expansion into their habitats — is enough to make any thinking Australia give up on her and Labor. They have squandered the opportunity to not only be a great government for Australia but for the whole world now living in deadly climate change impacts! Unforgivable.”
~ Blair Palese
Can someone please tell me what the underlying rationale is for these and other fossil mining approvals? Are Australian citizens suffering from lack of energy supply? Is there a simple explanation that a democratic national government would so clearly undermine future well being of its citizens for the short term profit of foreign owned corporations? Is there a logic that can be explained?
~ Peter Mulherin on Linkedin
“If people continue to burn fossil fuels and destroy nature, the role of climate breakdown in driving disasters will grow stronger. The problem is not just that losses and damage will rise as the planet heats up, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change warned in a report in 2022. It’s also that “additional human and natural systems will reach adaptation limits”.
That line is one of many chilling sentences in the report that has sadly been overlooked by politicians and journalists.”
~ Ajit Niranjan, The Guardian
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Antonio Guterres speaking at the UN General Assembly 2024
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Transcript of The Sustainable Hour no. 522
Antonio Guterres, United Nations Secretary-General:
A future without fossil fuel is certain. A fair and fast transition is not. That is in your hands.
Jingle:
The Sustainable Hour. For a green, clean, sustainable Geelong: The Sustainable Hour.
Tony Gleeson:
Welcome to The Sustainable Hour. We’re broadcasting from a number of countries today, mainly – for Mik and Colin: from Wadawurrung Country. And I’m currently on Gum Banga country, which is near Coffs Harbour in New South Wales. We’d like to acknowledge the proud custodians of that land, custodians who looked after that land and their country for millennia before the land was stolen. Always was and always will be First Nations land, and we hope that we learn from their ancient wisdom, which they acquired from nurturing both their land and their communities for millennia, before that land was stolen.
Mik Aidt:
‘You never change things by fighting the existing reality. If you want to change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete,’ said Buckminster Fuller a long time ago, and we have been talking about this almost a decade now – it’s been on one of our Facebook pages all that long, and I believe, in a way, what I experienced a month ago in Denmark was a new model. They have a name for that new model. It’s called… they are calling it ‘Den Grønne Omstilling’.
As I talked about when I was reporting from Denmark, ‘Den Grønne Omstilling’ can be translated to something like ‘The Green Restructuring’, or Reorientation, and so on. And at that time, a month ago, I asked you, our listeners, to come with suggestions – and thank you very much for… I think, more than 20 different suggestions that we’ve been receiving to what we should call ‘Den Grønne Omstilling’.
Why this is important – that new model, the learning from Denmark – is that if we have a united language and an expression like ‘Den Grønne Omstilling’, which is telling us all that society is being reshaped and deliberately recalibrated in a way that makes sense and even creates new economy, new jobs… that’s the thing that we need here in Australia to get on the same page and to drive climate action.
It’s as if everyone is waiting for the government to do something – but really, the government is not going to do anything until enough people want them to do it.
The interesting story about ‘Den Grønne Omstilling’ in Denmark is that that word apparently was created by the media. Some people in the equivalent to the ABC, the Danish Broadcasting Corporation, began using this word. And then the business people and people in the population began to use the word. And then the politicians started talking about it: ‘The green shift’ – or… what should we call it?
Anyway, that’s my thinking at the moment, and we’ll be talking more about that. I’m contemplating that we could do some events here in Geelong and around in Australia, where we begin to focus on the positivity around a ‘green shift’ and what it would mean if we unified our language and found one expression that we’re all using when we talk about where we’re heading. Because there’s so much negative stuff going on in the world at the moment, isn’t there? And I’m sure, Colin Mockett, you will be talking about that in a few minutes. I mean, people are dying now with all the climate disasters we’re seeing – in France: ten people died, India: 15 people, Poland, Romania: 24 people, and so on and so on. And it’s all about water at the moment. Floods destroying homes and roads and bridges. We’re watching the climate crisis play out in real time every day.
So, as you know, to keep an eye on what’s been going on in the world and sort of summarise it, we have our own Colin Mockett OAM who’s got the global outlook. Colin, let’s hear what do you have for us? Because there sure is a lot going on in the world at the moment.
04:40
Colin Mockett’s Global Outlook:
Yeah, there certainly is. And it’s still ongoing. But our roundup this week begins in America in the aftermath of Hurricane Helene, which made landfall in Florida as a massive Category 4 hurricane – the strongest hurricane in that area on record. Helene then weakened to become a tropical storm and pushed through Georgia and the Carolinas, bringing catastrophic rainfall and flash flooding on the way to Tennessee leaving 64 people dead in its wake. It’s still there in the form of strong winds, widespread flooding and a damage bill counted in the tens of billions.
There’s nothing new about hurricanes hitting America, it has its own season and houses are built to withstand it. What is different in the 21st century is the number, strength and mostly, intensity.
The US scientists who studied this year’s hurricane corridor blame this squarely on our ever-warming seas. And sadly, their forecasts are for more of the same.
Marina Koren, in an article published in The Atlantic titled ‘America’s Hurricane Luck Is Running Out’, said “Climate change isn’t to blame for where a hurricane touches down, or if it does at all. But many of the hurricanes that do reach land these days are more intense because of oceans warmed by climate change. Decades ago, Helene might have become a medium-size storm – still destructive, but not a beast. This hurricane is a warning sign of America’s relentless hurricane future.”
And there’s an eerie similarity of terms used in my second item this week. It is Australian article in The Saturday Paper at the weekend which reported that the CFA’s bushfire advice has changed. CFA advice has changed from ‘Prepare, Stay and Defend or Leave Early’ to ‘Leave Early and Live’.
That message has become more urgent and we’ll hear it a lot in this year’s fire season. And that’s about to hit us in what I think it’s about two weeks time.
Today’s advice to people living in fire-prone remote areas concentrates on smaller elements of preparedness, like having your car facing outward on dangerous days and keeping the keys ready in the ignition. It gives advice on building bushfire bunkers and sprinkler systems. The authority has more detailed advice on how to “harden” your property: cover vents, don’t plant too close to your house, secure any gas cylinders and reconsider using treated pine. But all these things are secondary to the main message: leave early to survive, because, like America’s hurricanes, Australia’s bushfires are now more intense due to global warming.
Also in The Saturday Paper was an article from climate scientist Joëlle Gergis. Her bottom line was simple: the science says that to limit global warming to 1.5° degrees Celsius, the world needs to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 43 per cent below 2019 levels by 2030.
Her figures then showed that following a stocktake of progress conducted at COP28 in November 2023, current pledges were on track to reduce emissions by just 2 per cent.
I’ll say that again. We need 43 per cent, and we’ve pledged at annual COP meetings to reach 2 per cent. And even if all the different nations’ net zero policies are fully implemented, we will only see a reduction of about 5.3 per cent.
Now, given how long we’ve known about global warming, these figures represent the greatest policy failure in human history, she said. And she described the world’s collective behaviour as “an utter betrayal of future generations.”
And just to illustrate how the world is losing its battle against the fossil fuel industry, a new report headed by Christiana Figueres, who was UN climate change head during the Paris agreement negotiations, said world subsidies to fossil fuel companies are now at record levels.
You would expect them to be the opposite, wouldn’t you? But record levels.
“Two years on from the signing of the landmark biodiversity plan, we continue to finance our own extinction,“ she said. Estimates are much higher than previously thought – with at least $2.6 trillion now funding the destruction of nature, endangering the chances of meeting our nature and climate goals,” she said.
“Governments continue to provide billions of dollars in tax breaks, subsidies and other spending that directly work against the goals of the 2015 Paris climate agreement,” she said and quoted countries providing direct support for deforestation, water pollution and fossil fuel consumption. Examples included government policies that subsidise petrol, synthetic fertilisers and monoculture crop production.
Her report found that the annual total of environmentally harmful subsidies has increased by more than $800 billion since the authors last published an analysis in 2022. $800 billion in two years and increasing subsidies to fossil fuels. The report’s authors, who are leading experts on subsidies, said a significant proportion of the $2.6 trillion – which is equivalent to about 2.5 per cent of global GDP – could be repurposed for policies that benefit people and nature. Nearly all of the world’s governments pledged to do this as part of COP15 in December 2022. Now that $800 billion is the equivalent of about 2.5 per cent of global GDP, so that’s where the world’s profits are going.
And finally, back in America, a bit of much better news in this sort of a way. California Attorney General Rob Bonta last week sued ExxonMobil, accusing the oil and gas giant of knowingly contributing to “one of the most devastating global environmental crises of our time while misleading the public.”
And surprisingly, the lawsuit wasn’t about air pollution or greenhouse gas emissions. California has gone after a fossil fuel multinational for its manufacture of plastics causing environmental harm. It claims ExxonMobil is substantially responsible for “the deluge of plastic pollution that has harmed and continues to harm California’s environment, wildlife, natural resources, and people.”
The company “deceived Californians for almost half a century by promising that recycling could and would solve the ever-growing plastic waste crisis,” he said. And most plastic recycling schemes turned out to be at best ineffectual, at worst, bogus.
The lawsuit joins dozens that have been filed since 2015, all targeting the plastics industry.
But the California lawsuit stands apart, stepping up the attack by throwing the legal weight of the largest state in the country against Exxon, described as the largest producer in the world of the polymers used to make the most troublesome of plastics: single-use packaging. The state is seeking billions of dollars from Exxon and says it will use it to fund the abatement of a host of harms from plastic pollution in California. It also seeks an order to stop Exxon from using such terms as recycling, circular, or even recyclable when describing any of its products or operations.
And on that cautiously optimistic note, I’ll end this week’s roundup.
14:57
Jingle:
Listen to our Sustainable Hour – for the future.
Tony Gleeson:
Our guest today is Gregory Andrews. He’s a proud D’harawal man, is a former ambassador and threatened species commissioner. Most importantly for him, he is a dad who’s really worried about the impacts of climate change on his kids and country. Welcome, Gregory, for giving us your valuable time now. A lot of people probably don’t know this, but you recently returned from an across-country electric bike ride. So maybe you can start by telling us about that? And then we can we can go into other details about your story.
Gregory Andrews:
Yeah. Thanks, Tony. Yeah. And just to start by saying I’m actually understanding country at the moment north of Sydney and just grateful to be to be there on this beautiful part of Australia with flannel flowers, and whales swimming by. Yeah. So look, actually, I just finished riding 4,970 kilometres across Australia from Cottesloe Beach in Perth to Bondi Beach in Sydney, and I made a detour via Parliament House because I knew the politicians would be there.
But I did it because I wanted to show that if a 56-year-old dad could ride across Australia on his e-bike – depending on the generosity of people to charge it: I didn’t have to pay once to charge it up on my journey – If I could do that with my credit card and my electric toothbrush… – because I always like to have clean teeth. My wife teases me about that. But – if I could do that, then surely Australia can get on with the transition to renewable energy. It’s not complicated.
And so what I did was I rode… I planned to ride about 100 kilometres a day, but I actually got quite fit, and I ended up averaging about 150 kilometres a day. And some days I rode up to 220 kilometres.
But each time I stopped, whether I was like for a coffee or at a ride house, or for lunch, or overnight, I’d ask ‘grey nomads’… knock on someone’s door if they had solar panels on their roof, and just ask people if I could recharge my bike and tell them what I’m doing, and then have discussions with people about the benefits of renewable energy.
And I think what I really wanted to do was show… – and I think one of the key takeaways from my trip which I called my ‘E-bike for Australia’ – to show that, beyond the climate benefits, renewable energy just makes so much sense because electricity and using, using and reusing electrons is so much more efficient than burning molecules, which is what we do with fossil fuels.
But also it’s just so good for the hip pocket. And so just sharing stories and listening to stories about the benefits to the hip pocket, for energy security, energy independence, and the economic and community benefits of solar and wind and just dispelling many of the myths that you hear.
18:32
Tony:
Greg, one of the myths is about range anxiety or results in range anxiety. It seems like you didn’t have that. What was the range of of the bike that you had?
Gregory:
Yeah, thanks. So that’s a good question. And, it’s kind of a little bit like asking how long is a piece of string. So my e-bike is called a Treck Power Fly. And it’s got a 500 watt motor, so half a kilowatt battery. So I bought an extra battery. It really depends on the wind and how hilly it is. But what I can say is I didn’t run out once. A couple of times I got down to 1 or 2 kilometres. But before I left, I did actually experiment and ride my bike without the batteries for about 30 or 40 kilometres.
And it’s just heavy weight. But it still works. And so on a good day, I would actually ride… I hope that noise isn’t interfering? My mum’s just sent something to the printer. I’m actually looking after my mum, who had a hip operation. But I remember one day I ride from Norseman to Ballard Dania, which is 197 kilometres, and I had about a 40 kilometer-an-hour tailwind that day.
I used a third of one battery, but there were other days when I had a headwind or when I was going up hills where I needed to stop more frequently. Whenever I stopped in a town or, a cafe or even petrol stations. I just asked them if I could recharge the petrol stations on my last resort because I was trying to use renewables, but, no one said no, and no one asked me to pay for it.
20:26
Colin:
That’s lovely Gregory. I love the idea of it. I love the concept. But there’s a couple of questions that came immediately to mind. Number one, what reaction did you get from the police at Parliament House? And number two, did you actually take with you or support the or did you do this completely solo?
Gregory:
Yeah. So look, I’ll answer the second question first. I did it by myself completely solo because I wanted to show that it wasn’t complicated. And I thought if I have a support crew, it actually it’s it’s making it complicated. So I wanted to show that I could do it by myself. And I do remember when I, when I hit the Nullarbor and it was 5 a.m. and I was at this truck road stop at the very beginning in Western Australia, and it’s 1100 kilometers to the next town.
And like, there’s a few ride houses and stuff on the way, but… I got sick of waiting because I had to eat so much for energy and so I was eating two bacon and egg rolls and a massive iced coffee at this truck stop. And the young lady said, ‘Oh, yeah, because you’re one of those people.’
And I said, ‘Oh, I’m a bit nervous, actually.’ And she goes, ‘Oh, don’t worry. It’s just another road.’ But I have to say, I loved every minute of it. And you know how normally if you’re on a long journey, even if you’re enjoying it, you’re still thinking how much longer, you know, how much longer till I get there? Even if you’re really enjoying it.
I can honestly say I never felt like that when I was on my a bike. If I did feel like that, it was when I was stuck in, like a motel or, you know, not on my bike, because as soon as I got on my bike, that was my destination.
So, yeah. So I did it by myself. But I was never lonely because I just kept meeting people who kept saying, ‘This is amazing what you’re doing!’ – and then to answer your first question, Kate Chaney, the independent MP who… – I often call her ‘the David Pocock of Western Australia’ because I live in Canberra – she farewelled me from Cottesloe Beach and we took my bike down and we put the back wheel in the Indian Ocean.
So I had really good engagement from the so-called ‘teals’, the independents. Rebecca Shcks’ office invited me to pop in and have a coffee. She wasn’t there, but then she met me at Parliament House. Andrew Wilkie from Tasmania came down, and so did Allegra Spender. And Allegra was going to meet me at Bondi. But she had a family commitment because it’s really hard to give them an exact time of arrival, so I think I had really good engagement with the independent politicians.
Look, to be honest with you, I didn’t really bother to engage with Liberals or even Labor. I hope I’m not getting into trouble for being political, but I’m really disappointed in the Labor Party. And, you know, most of my life I’ve voted Labor or Green or one way or the other, but I just expected so much more from the current government.
And I think Chris Bowen is doing a fantastic job at getting domestic renewable energy going and challenging Peter Dutton on silly ideas like nuclear power stations, which we don’t need and just over priced to too long, off on the horizon. But what Tanya Plibersek and Madelaine King approving massive coal projects like last week, Tanya Plibersek signed off on three coal projects with 1.3 billion tonnes of emissions, which is equivalent to 65 million Australian households emissions for a year.
So I just didn’t… I didn’t want to engage with them because I didn’t want them to get any greenwashing benefit from what I’m doing.
Colin:
Yeah, you don’t have to worry, Gregory, about being too political. You’re only echoing the words that come up every single week on this program. Let’s get back to your bike. Did you get any blisters?
Gregory:
Yep. I got a big blister on my bum. Excuse me for saying, after about three days and, I thought I can and I just have to push through this. So I started wearing two pairs of bike pants. I thought that would help, and it kind of went away, but then it came back because, you know, when a wound heals and it goes through the dry, scabby stage.
But then because I was rubbing on the seat, the scabs kind of wore off. And so I had a really sore, not a sore muscle bum. But I had a really sore, painful itchy bum, from this blister blistering from the black thing on my bum cheek. And actually I found some aloe vera in some of the road houses, and I put that on it and that that kind of made it go away.
But the worst thing was actually my wrist. So after about five days, I thought my wrist actually started getting really sore. And, I thought, ‘What am I going to do?’ But I ended up buying those things that people sometimes wear in offices when they get RSI from computers that have like a steel piece. And then I also got some pool noodles and made some modifications to my bike to kind of change up the holding positions on my bike.
Colin:
So that was from the vibration of your handlebars?
Gregory:
Yeah, that was from the vibration. And also because my bike, when I was loaded up with all my spare parts and tools, it was pretty heavy. It probably weighed about 60 or 70 kilos, and occasionally, like if I was getting on or off it and like my automatic response would be to lean on something, but my wrist and then that strain.
So I think what happened is I strained my wrist a few times because the bike was so heavy and I was trying to use one hand to balance it, which you kind of you, Brian has taught you to do from 50 years of bike riding, but it was like trying to do that to a Harley Davidson or something that was too heavy.
26:56
Colin:
Yeah. Did you get a swag?
Gregory:
I carried a tent. I took a tent, as a backup. I didn’t use it very often. I carried it because I wanted to spend time with people. And so that’s why I stayed in pubs and motels and caravan parks, because I wanted to engage with people. And I thought if I was camping, I’d be more isolated.
But I used it as a backup. But I rarely had to use it because what would happen? For example, I remember I was at a place called Andrew, which is the last roadhouse on the Nullarbor, and I knew I ate. I had to ride. Now I was in June junior actually, and I either had to ride if I wanted to stay in a motel or a hotel or a pub.
Pubs were my favorite, like the old strain pubs. And you know, you stay upstairs and you can go down and have a beer at the counter and young people, but I either had to ride 90 kilometres or 220 kilometres and I thought, well, 90. I need to do more than that because, because, pretty much anything less than about 120 or 130 was a short day.
So I thought, I’ll have to sleep in my tent. But then I remember at about 190 kilometres, I thought, well, I could sleep in my tent, or I could just do another 40 kilometres and sleep in a bed and have a hot shower. So. So I usually chose extra distance, and maybe occasionally had a Red bull or a mars bar or some sort of high energy junk food products to keep me going so that I could sleep in, in a bed.
Colin:
How were you treated by the other traffic on the road? Where were the truckies – with a single bike in front of them.
Gregory:
Yeah. So actually, I was really pleasantly surprised. the two best kind of demographic groups were truckies and, farmers, because the farmers are just really patient. And so they would just give me a wave and they’re always driving below the speed limit and they just slow down.
I think the truckies interestingly, the trucks are the biggest, noisiest, scariest things, and they would be going past that 110 kilometres an hour with four trailers. But it’s kind of a bit weird. It was almost a bit like Stockholm syndrome. Something happened and I kind of fell in love with the trucks, and I was fascinated. And at the roadhouses I’d stop and I’d go and put my bike next to the truck and go, this is my big rig, and can I take a photo of my rig next to yours?
And, but but actually the truck, I think the truckies have a bit of a bad name. And because the truck, these actually, trained drivers and also I think the trucking companies know that it’s a bad look, if they hit a cyclist, it’s not good for their bottom line and their brand. So the truckers always gave me a wide berth, but they were also experienced enough to slow down or speed up so that there was never an oncoming vehicle and a truck and me all at the same spot.
And farmers were like that, too. The farmers were like that because I think they were just patient. The grain nomads were probably the most unpredictable and dangerous. But I do feel a bit sorry for them because two thirds to three quarters were really good and friendly, but about a quarter of them just really didn’t have the awareness or experience of the size of their vehicle or wouldn’t stop kind of in their mind to look at the road edge and think, is there room for that cyclist to get off?
And so, the Grey Nomads were the ones that I had to look out for the most, except around the Riverina, where there were young, young men in those Holden Commodore and Ford Utes that are really shiny with two exhausts. And it’s on all times around and walk. I was cycling with my head down, looked up and saw something coming in both lines straight towards me.
And each time it was a young like one of those green or blue pay players overtaking head on straight towards me. And it was just lucky I saw in time to get off. But yeah, so that was a closest calls. the best thing I had is I had this Garmin gadget, which was about 500 bucks, that plugged on the back of my bike and integrated with my phone and gave me a little visual thing on the phone.
But also I baked to me to tell me when anything was coming behind me. So I just used that and always made a decision based on that, whether to just keep a straight line in that nice shiny bit where you can get a little bit of extra, efficiency. But whenever in doubt, just get off the road.
Mik:
When you arrived to Sydney, what was the feeling like?
Gregory:
There were about five times when I felt this sense of achievement. It wasn’t pride, but it was a combination of achievement and joy and and actually, the first time it happened was when I got off the Nullarbor, and then the next time was when I crossed from Western Australia into South Australia.
Actually, that was the first time. Then when I got off the Nullarbor and then when I saw the Murray River, I actually got tears in my eyes because the the same water from the Murrumbidgee River flows through another world country where I live. And, and then when I came into Canberra, I had a really strong emotional response. And then yeah, in Sydney I felt like one of those cyclists I know I’m not, but from the tour de France.
So like I had both my fists up and I was like, yeah! And I saw my wife and my children and lots of friends and the Pacific Ocean and it just, I just felt like, wow, I’ve just crossed my whole country. But I also just thought how small it is, like it took me five weeks in a day to cycle across our continent.
And yeah, so it just really also made me realise how small it is and how important it is for us to protect it. Yeah, absolutely.
Tony:
Gregory, did you come across any electric vehicles on the the trip across Australia?
Gregory:
I actually didn’t. But I do have some funny electric vehicle stories. I thought I’d see more EVs. Probably the best thing I saw was one of those little bay wide hose towing a caravan right in the middle of the Nullarbor, and it was going along into a headwind at about 80km an hour. And I’m like, how did I get here? And, I think theoretically, when I… well, I should stop and say when I wasn’t on the Nullarbor, everywhere except the Nullarbor, every place I stopped I’d be able to charge.
The myth that there’s no car charging network anymore. Like, right throughout Western Australia and South Australia, New South Wales, there were always car charges and I often would go and if it was one that had the two way charging, I’d ask them if I could charge my bike from their car. Like I even did it at a high under ideal, in in Port Augusta.
But yeah, the funniest thing I saw was this they wide at I towing a caravan. And the other thing that I found really interesting was that I think it was a Kai goon I, which is one of the roadhouses on the Nullarbor. There’s a lot of hot chips and hamburgers that are written on the Nullarbor, a lot of fried food.
And one of the roadhouses has a, this big originally would have been a diesel generator plugged in to a fast car charger, and it’s powered by the chip fat from the from the Roadhouse. So I don’t know if that counts as zero emissions, but it’s definitely using bio, you know, biofuel. And it’s definitely reusing something to get more energy out of it. So I was pretty impressed with that.
Colin:
Well, the whole thing sounds like… It doesn’t sound like an endurance at all. It sounds like fun! Gregory, I’ve got a couple of other questions. Number one is, did you go through any tires and did you have any breakdowns that caused you any problems?
Gregory:
Yeah, I had a spare tire and I actually manage not to actually have to put it on, but my back tire was pretty much almost bald by the time I got to Bondi.
And I probably should have changed it. I didn’t have any major mechanical issues. I had three three flat tires and at least two of them were in, I’m going to get a bit political again that were in the electorate of Pharah, which is that big electorate in the west of New South Wales on were ag country that Sussan Ley, the liberal lady.
She’s into numerology and she put an extra s in a name. So I don’t know if you’re supposed to pronounce that or not? But she’s been the member of Parliament there for 30 years. But the roads were horrific, and it just struck me how the worst roads were in this, electorate that to former Liberal Minister for infrastructure and she’s got an airplane so she wouldn’t even know because she just flies around in this airplane.
But that… I got two flat tires and stuff. The other thing that happened is bad weather. I started blowing stuff off my bike because at one stage I had these 65 kilometer an hour tailwind that turned into a crosswind and that literally blew off my mirror, blew off my safety flag, and, yeah, kind of did a bit of damage, but nothing major.
Colin:
Okay, now how are you going to get home and will you be doing a lap of honour?
Gregory:
So I already am home because I purposely chose to ride from west to east. I thought I was doing it to avoid having to ride up the Great Dividing Range, but what I learned was actually the winds in Australia are prevailing west to east. So if anyone’s planning to do it, do it from Perth to Sydney rather than the other way. And to answer your second question, but also to respond to what you said before, this is like one of the best things I’ve ever done in my life. Like I did it for climate action, but I just had the absolute best time.
37:52
I just kept thinking, how much fun am I having doing this? Like, I’m so glad that I did it. It was just amazing. And on that basis, I’m starting to plan already. My next long distance ride. And so I haven’t decided, but I’m thinking I should ride and maybe get people to join me this time and do a ride against gas and ride from Adelaide to Darwin, because Adelaide is where Santos is based, which is one of our two big gas companies, and then Darwin is where all these massive project arcs, are occurring that are carbon bombs, according to the scientists, and which are just going to completely wreck our future. So I’m thinking a ride right up through the middle of Australia, but maybe not just me, maybe inviting people to join me.
Colin:
Well, let’s talk about that right now, Gregory, if people want to join you, how do they contact you?
Gregory:
All right, well, I think I’ll do it next winter. one of the things I learned from even doing it in winter across the Nullarbor, I had 27° degree days, and there were days in, in this winter in South Australia where it was 39°. So I’ll need to do it next winter in sort of probably June, July or July.
August. I think what they should do is, send me an email, check my website, like their dream income, find the contact list and let me know if they came because I really, I think it would be great to have like a, like a big group of bikes, e-bikes, normal bikes. and actually, I just bought a cargo bike.
I bought one of those, it’s a German brand, but it’s the Dutch design, like an inline cargo bike with a huge… So I’d like to take that and take my dog, Fred. If I’m allowed – if my friend Martin let me.
Colin:
That was going to be my next question. Would you change anything if you did it again? Oh, yes. You’d take your dog! if you do it again.
Gregory:
I’d love to take my dog. Yeah, he probably is a bit too old. He’s turning 13. But that was one of the one of the hardest things was missing my dog, because I love my dog – and I love my family, but I could FaceTime them – but I couldn’t communicate with my dog.
Tony:
Yeah. And Gregory, this was the lightest of your adventures, I guess. But there’s been the same one or two others that a lot of the listeners wouldn’t know: that you fasted for an incredible amount of days towards the end of last year. Maybe we could talk a little bit about that? And what what strategies and, yeah, how you ended up?
41:15
Gregory:
Yeah. Thanks, Tony. Yeah. Actually. Look… Yeah. So this time last year, I was actually on the lawns of Parliament House on a hunger strike that lasted for 16 days. And it ended when I got my wife permission to call the ambulance. And then I ended up going to hospital for three days. But I did that hunger strike because I completely… I’m really concerned about the cognitive dissonance that the world has on the climate crisis. That’s no longer a future emergency. And I worked as a climate negotiator for Australia and remembered when there was a carbon budget. And when you theoretically could put off climate action and just pay a lot more to fix the problem.
But there’s no climate, carbon budget left. And so last year I felt driven to do something. And I have to say, it was triggered by climate grief and climate anxiety. So I refused to eat anything and sat on the lawns of Parliament House, for 16 days. I just had water and a little bit of salt each morning, and I wasn’t allowed to sleep there.
So I went home, which was kind of good in a way. It gave me a bit more strength to sleep in my own bed, and I had my dog, Fred, with me too. But I did that because I just felt that, governments need to be accountable to our kids and our country and our future, and they’re not.
And the continued… It would be last year, I remember Tanya Plibersek, the environment minister, when I did that, she’d come in and she’d already approved five new coal mines, you know. And then just last week, she approved another three. But so I did that climate hunger strike, and a lot of the politicians were quite exercised about it and a lot of very senior people in government, because I was the senior executive in government and was the commissioner of a threatened species, an ambassador. And so I wanted to draw on that, to bring shame onto the government. And as an Aboriginal person, shaming is actually something that we don’t condone. You don’t shame people, but actually our government collectively and the people in Parliament House in power, they’re not doing what’s needed for our children now. And even in my lifetime, I’m 56 and where I live in Canberra, if emissions trajectory don’t change, it’ll be like Saudi Arabia in my lifetime.
And it’s just terrifying to think what what it would be in the future. So yeah, I did that hunger strike and I wanted to go for at least 21 days, which Gandhi did. But I made it to 16 and I think I draw it drew attention. I remember saying to the specialist at the hospital, sadly, there are people in the hospitals who work full time as, self-imposed starvation specialists, but it’s because of anorexia.
Sadly. But I said to them, I want to wait. but he said, and I apologised for putting a burden on the health system. And they said, ‘No, no, we’re all watching you and we support you. We just want to know, was it worth it and would you do it again?’ And I said it was definitely worth it, but I won’t do it again.
But maybe my cycle was the next thing that I did instead.
Mik:
And how did the two ways of campaigning then compare?
Gregory:
Yeah. Thanks, Mik. That’s a good question. I think the hunger strike was more powerful because it was more confronting, at a national level. Like, I got more media coverage. The media were more interested in it as a story.
And, and there was this sort of shock factor. but I think that a bike ride was a better way to connect with regional and remote Australia, like, so just about everywhere I went, the local radio stations and newspapers ran stories, and which I think was really good and really important because the fossil fuel industry and the Liberal National Party are putting a lot of investment into misinformation, mischievous misinformation, and like, as an example that I remember, one of the politicians, the teals, telling me about how they’d gone to this Barnaby Joyce workshop on how to communicate about wind farms.
And it was like a coaching session to teach people what to say against wind farms. And, you know, one of the things is all the taking up, all the prime agricultural land. And I heard people say that I’d go into a pub and they’d go, ‘Yeah, but they’re taking up all the prime agricultural land.’ Then I’d go, like, ‘I’ve just cycled… I’m currently at 2,300 kilometres and I’ve seen a lot of wind farms, but I haven’t seen any on prime agricultural land. Where are they. Tell me, where are they? Because I can’t tell you!’
So I liked having those very local conversations that challenge the misinformation.
46:04
Mik:
Fantastic. I was just in Denmark, Gregory. And I was really impressed with that the Danes seem to have a different narrative than what I have personally been very focused on, you know – spreading the gospel of the climate emergency has been something I have been very much a part of the last almost decade. But in Denmark, they’ve totally refused to talk about the emergency. That’s not their focus. Their focus is that they have found an expression for the green transition or the green shift, and they all talk about that as something inevitable. It’s become a word that everyone is focused on and accepting or even pushing for. And I’m thinking, what you do here with your bike ride is similar. And what we need now is just to get the language with us as well. So, for instance, if every one of us began to talk about ‘the green shift’ rather than talking about the climate science and the carbon, emissions talk… it’s somewhere in the future. And so if you talk about the green shift, that’s something we can all understand. Your bike in itself is the first step, isn’t it?
Gregory:
It’s right there in front of your eyes, I think. I think there’s a lot of really logical human psychology behind that. And my hunger strike felt powerful, but it was negative. Like I was emphasising a negative story about what was happening.
My bike ride felt like a journey that was promoting something positive. And, you know, I remember like being in Port Augusta and asking Pat, which is one of Peter Duttons proposed nuclear power plant sites and and actually, I’m technology neutral. If Australia had nuclear power stations, I’d say keep them running for as long as possible, you know? but we just don’t need them, and they’re too expensive, but I would I was asking people, what do you think about the nuclear power stations? And I remember, quite a few people said, well, I do like the idea of the jobs about them. And I said, yeah, I said that, you know, there’s more jobs in the renewable transition. And then I talked about the fact that there’s with nuclear, there’s a boost of jobs at the beginning when they build it.
And then there’s some really high paid jobs for people with very technical university degrees to run the nuclear power station, but with solar and wind farms, it’s heaps of jobs for tradies to manage them, repair them, install them, fit all the transmission lines. and so when you look at the analysis in the data, if it’s jobs you’re interested in renewables provide a lot more jobs and nuclear or coal fired power stations.
So talking about the benefits, and I remember I kept telling people all the time, look, look, I’ve got two teenagers and they use a lot of energy and they’re always leaving their heaters on. And, you know, and I lecture them all the time about climate change and energy efficiency, but it goes in one ear and out the other.
But what I can tell you is that our house is covered in solar panels. And our last bill, we got paid $300 from the energy provider, and that includes charging our two cars and running the whole house with two teenagers that leave hating on all the time. And, you know, the Nissan Leaf. This which I’d go our Nissan Leafs like a Toyota Corolla but it’s electric.
My teenage of has driven that 40,000 kilometres in the last two and a half years, and we’ve paid less than $30 to charge it because it trickle feeds from free solar energy from our roof. And then people go, really? And people just can’t believe it. So I think I really tried to make an effort to talk about the positives and almost to talk about like you just described it, like not even the climate benefits of the renewable energy shift.
Yeah. I think that people that, climate deniers are using warm to that’s that idea. In fact, you know, the last minute or so that you’ve been speaking, that money that you’re saving, I think so. And I think the farmers, even the farmers who acknowledge climate change. But what I did notice is in regional and remote Australia, there’s a lot of pressure to behave and identify certain way to be part of that tribe.
So like, you know, if you. And so there’s a lot of pressure if you’re a farmer to be climate denialist, anti wind farm. But when you actually have a one on one conversation with the farmer and you go, you know that giant machine, how much does that costing diesel to do your harvesting. And then they tell you and it’s like hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And then you go, ‘Do you know, like, can I show you there’s this company in Adelaide that’s just built an electric one and it looks the same, and this is how much it costs, or the same with the Truckies saying to the Truckies, what would you think of a track that can go 1,500 kilometres before it needs to refuel? And actually, it only costs a quarter of this much to refuel. But the fuel isn’t diesel. And they’re like, ‘We want to know more about that truck!’ and then, ‘Oh, that would be in it. That could be an electric electric truck!’ And actually, while you’re having your chips and hamburger and having a shower, it’ll be recharged and they’re like, ‘Yeah, yeah, I want one of those, particularly if it costs a quarter as much.’
So yeah, I think I think it’s a really good point that I learned myself, because I think I’ve still got bad climate anxiety and it won’t go away. but I need to try and try. And if we talk about it too much, we have to be honest. But also people stop listening. and so we need to find ways to keep people listening.
And the benefits of renewables, including but way beyond climate benefits, are just immense. No?
I grew up like I worked in an abattoir when I finished school on my mum and my sister and I left my dad and we were homeless. I remember sleeping in a caravan, but I am in there as a late now. I live in Canberra. I live in a beautiful house. I had a great job. I don’t have to worry about money.
I’m not rich, but I don’t have to worry about money. And I’m highly educated – that people, highly educated people from the cities who don’t have to worry about money, lecturing people in the bush doesn’t work. And, and people turn off and I would if I was in the bush to, so I do think, empowering the positive story and there’s something there about AI for me that I really like.
There’s something about identity and helping people realise that their identity isn’t a threat. By shifting to regenerative farming or getting wind turbines on their property. all the farmers have had the wind turbines. Love them. The farmers that didn’t have them were the ones who were most likely to be cross about them. and also the farmers have had the transmission lines because this is an equity issue that I agree with them.
If you have the wind turbines, you get paid rent and you can agree or not agree to have them on your land. But the transmission lines I come along and I say we’re going to build it and we’ll give you some compensation, will negotiate with you. But if you won’t, we’re going to give you some compensation. It’ll be mandatory.
So there’s a resentment that the renewable transition is creating this divide in regional Australia between the people who have wind turbines, who get more money and decide how many and where, and the people that are told. Now we’re going to build a transmission lines to them across your property, and you’ve got to suck it up. and so I think actually a policy change there needs to occur, and we need to agree to actually pay more for the transmission lines.
And, and negotiate with on the same way as we do with, the turbines, but just telling them to suck it up. It’s urban arrogance.
That’s all we could fit in one sustainable hour, which today was loaded with stories from around Australia and e-bikes.
Fantastic, Gregory, thank you so much. we always end with saying be the difference or be something. What would you say if you were to or generally what’s your your message to our listeners if you just have your last minute here?
I think someone famous, I can’t remember where, but they said ‘be the change you want to say in the world’ – and remember to recycle even if it’s across Australia. Yeah, there’s a nice little town there isn’t. There aren’t
I would say, you know, be the green shift. Yeah. Be the green shift.
55:17
SONG
Michael Franti: ‘Brighter Day’
Don’t give up when your heart is weary. Don’t give up when your eyes are teary. Don’t give up when your voice is trembling. When your life needs mending. Don’t give up when I heard is near you. Don’t give up when the world seems to be broken. I’m still hoping with my heart open. Hey, for a brighter day.
Oh, don’t give up when your pride is bruised. And don’t give up when you feel you’re losing. Don’t give up in your darkest hour. Cause you got that power. Don’t give up when you feel divided. Don’t give up I’ll be by your side on broken I’m still hoping with my heart open. And your for brighter day.
And if you stay with me I will stay with you. For brighter than you can. Oh, brighter than.
For a brighter day.
For a brighter day.
If you. Don’t give up. You just keep on fighting. Don’t give up. You just keep on fighting. Don’t give up. You just keep on fighting. Even when your eyes are crying. Don’t give up. You just keep on fighting. Don’t give up. You just keep on fighting. Even when your eyes are cry. You get for bright.
For brighter days.
For the day. You can’t fall brighter than.
If you stay with me I will stay away with you. For brighter day on you. But you just keep on fighting for a brighter day. You.
58:29
KLM advertisement
Look at it go. Still feels like magic, doesn’t it? Do you remember your first fight? We do. Even though it was 100 years ago. Going here and here and all. Yeah. Even here, people have really gotten the hang of it. It’s changed our world forever. But 100 years of aviation comes with great responsibility. Because you want our children to get to know this beautiful world, too, right?
That’s why we’re working night and day to improve flying for the next hundred years. But we can only make it possible together. That’s why we want to ask you something. To fly more responsibly. Why do you always have to meet face to face? Could you take the train instead? Could you contribute by compensating your CO2 emissions or packing light?
We are the first commercial airline in the world today. Kindly invite you, all travelers and the aviation industry to join forces to join us in making the world aware of our shared responsibility. We all have to fly every now and then, but next time, think about flying responsibly.
59:51
Antonio Guterres, United Nations Secretary-General:
A future without fossil fuel is certain. A fair and fast transition is not.
60:00 ENDS
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