Podcast: Download (Duration: 53:32 — 49.4MB)
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | RSS | More
The Sustainable Hour no. 580 | Transcript | Podcast notes
International Women’s Day 2026 sets the theme Balance the Scales – and in episode 580 of The Sustainable Hour, the message that rises above all is simple and powerful: Be difficult!
Hosted by Lauren Dillon and Jodie Hill, this special edition explores climate justice through a gender lens – asking who carries the burden of climate impacts, who holds decision-making power, and whose voices are heard when the future is being shaped.
Women are often on the front lines of climate impacts – as carers, community organisers, First Nations custodians, rural leaders and advocates. Yet they remain underrepresented in leadership across politics, industry, finance and science. If women make up half the population, what does it mean when they are not fully part of the solution?
. . .
Our guest Lucy Richardson – lecturer in climate change communication at Monash University – brings research insights into the conversation.
Women in Australia, on average, report higher levels of concern about climate change than men. In high-emissions countries, a gender gap in concern exists, but that gap disappears in communities directly exposed to climate impacts. Research has shown that women are significantly more sceptical about nuclear energy as a proposed climate solution. Many women are more likely to say they are unsure about specific fossil fuel policies, highlighting a need for clearer, more accessible communication.
The discussion moves beyond statistics into lived experience. What shapes concern? Memory of disaster. Direct exposure. Social roles. Financial security. Access to air conditioning. Even whether you can afford to escape the heat.
The episode also explores how climate conversations travel – or don’t. Australians trust scientists, family, friends and medical professionals more than politicians or journalists. That means change does not only start in parliament. It starts at the kitchen table.
Conversations in grocery aisles. Conversations about pets in rising heat. Conversations about fast fashion, food, transport and everyday choices. Conversations that feel uncomfortable, but respectful.
Balancing the scales is not just about representation in leadership. It is also about whose knowledge counts. Indigenous knowledge. Intergenerational wisdom. Diverse cultural experience. Community voices that are often overlooked.
. . .
The episode returns again and again to one idea: community. We all want the benefit of the village – but are we willing to be good villagers? Are we willing to show up, to listen across difference, to sit in discomfort, to speak up?
Being labelled ‘difficult’ has often been used to silence women. In this episode, it is reclaimed as a badge of honour: Be difficult enough to ask questions. Challenge respectfully. Hold space for different perspectives, and keep the conversation alive.
Hope emerges not from denial of crisis, but from action. From young women producing climate communication projects. From diverse book clubs and knitting circles. From intergenerational friendships. From kitchen table debates. From voices getting louder – together.
As Jodie Hill reminds us in the closing segment: women represent half the world. If half the world is not fully involved in shaping climate solutions, we are leaving extraordinary power untapped.
The call is clear – not just for women, but for everyone: Balance the scales! Open the conversation. Build the village. And don’t be afraid of being ‘difficult’.
→ You can follow Lauren Dillon and Jodie Hill on Instagram
. . .
SONG
We round off the Hour with the song ‘Get Loud’ which is inspired by Jodie Hill and Lauren Dillon. It premiered in The Sustainable Hour no. 568:
A tribal anthem that rallies women to raise their voices, unite in action, and lead the charge for the planet.
→ More songs from The Sustainable Hour
“How many people actually know what temperature it’s not a great idea to take your dog for a walk in? It’s actually 24°C degrees. That’s really, really low! 24 degrees, the paws of your dog, for example, on a hot pavement on a 24°C degree day can actually be problematic. Particularly if they’re furry, like they’re really heavily furred, then they can’t, you know, they’ve got a pant to get the, to cool down and it’s a lot harder for them. So like, how astounding is that? That’s a great conversation starter and that can bring in people who might never have thought about this before.”
~ Lucy Richardson, lecturer in the School of Media, Film and Journalism and the Deputy Director of the Monash Climate Change Communication Research Hub
→ Subscribe to The Sustainable Hour podcast via Apple Podcasts or Spotify
→ Share our post about this podcast episode on Instagram, Blue Sky, Linkedin or Facebook
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
We at The Sustainable Hour would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we are broadcasting, the Wadawurrung People. We pay our respects to their elders – past, present, and emerging, and extend that respect to all First Nations people.
The traditional custodians lived in harmony with the land for millennia, nurturing it and thriving in often harsh conditions. Their connection to the land was deeply spiritual and sustainable. This land was invaded and stolen from them. It was never ceded. Today, it is increasingly clear that if we are to survive the climate emergency we face, we must learn from their land management practices and cultural wisdom.
True climate justice cannot be achieved until Australia’s First Nations people receive the justice they deserve. When we speak about the future, we must include respect for those yet to be born, the generations to come. As the old saying reminds us: “We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.” It is deeply unfair that decisions to ignore the climate emergency are being made by those who won’t live to face the worst impacts, leaving future generations to bear the burden of their inaction.
“The Indigenous worldview has been marginalised for generations because it was seen as antiquated and unscientific and its ethics of respect for Mother Earth were in conflict with the industrial worldview. But now, in this time of climate change and massive loss of biodiversity, we understand that the Indigenous worldview is neither unscientific nor antiquated, but is, in fact, a source of wisdom that we urgently need.”
~ Robin Wall Kimmerer, weallcanada.org
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
International Women’s Day 2026
International Women’s Day on 8 March is a global day celebrating the social, economic, cultural, and political achievements of women. The day also marks a call to action for accelerating gender equality.
IWD has occurred for well over a century, with the first IWD gathering in 1911 supported by over a million people. Today, IWD belongs to all groups collectively everywhere. IWD is not country, group or organisation specific. IWD is a movement, powered by the collective efforts of all.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Women do 75% of the world’s unpaid care work. What happens if we stop?
Iceland showed what happens when women withdraw. Here’s how to do it strategically.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
TRANSCRIPT
of The Sustainable Hour no. 580
António Guterres, United Nations Secretary-General: (00:00)
Cooperation over chaos. We are all in this together.
Jingle: (00:14)
The Sustainable Hour. For a green, clean, sustainable Geelong: The Sustainable Hour.
Lauren Dillon: (00:24)
Good morning and welcome to this special edition of The Sustainable Hour. In recognition of International Women’s Day, this podcast will be hosted by Jodie Hill and I today. My name is Lauren Dillon, and I’m an environmental science student and the vice president of ACF Geelong.
Jodie Hill: (00:42)
And I’m Jodie Hill, I’m the CEO of Women’s Health and Wellbeing, Barwon South West.
Lauren: (00:47)
Before we introduce International Women’s Day and grill our guest, I’ll start by doing an acknowledgement of country. So I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we are broadcasting and recording, the Wadawurrung people. I pay my respects to their elders – past, present and emerging, and extend that respect to all. True climate justice cannot be accused until Australia’s first native people receive the justice that they deserve.
Jodie: (01:17)
Thank you for doing that, Lauren. The theme for this year’s International Women’s Day is ‘Balance the Scales’, and I thought I’d take a minute just to introduce that theme and have a look at that in the context of climate issues. A couple of minutes is a hard ask for a big concept but I’ll give it a go if that’s okay.
‘Balance the Scales’ as a theme highlights the urgent need to ensure fair, inclusive and accessible justice equality and safety for every woman and girl. It’s a call to action for all of us to commit to real change, to transform systems, amplify marginalised voices and make equality a non-negotiable.
In terms of equality, we do always acknowledge that there has been progress over recent decades and today we’re fortunate to be building upon the efforts of the remarkable feminists, matriarchs, change makers, advocates and allies that have come before us.
But despite the progress that has occurred, real barriers to equality, safety and to justice remain deeply entrenched.
Climate change, the climate crisis, climate justice, this is a very gendered space. It’s a fact that the climate crisis and climate associated disasters simply do not affect us all equally. The people who are too often on the front lines, the women who care for households, communities and ecosystems, the First Nations women who are custodians of lands and waters, rural and regional women who are the social glue within their towns.
In instances of disaster, they are often the ones stepping up, all the while bearing a disproportionate burden as pre-existing inequalities are exacerbated under extreme conditions. In terms of climate risk, women face specific and significant health and mental health impacts and outcomes. They often take on a burden of care for others and put that ahead of their own mental health and wellbeing. They face geographic and systemic barriers to accessing support. They face lengthier periods for physical, mental, emotional and financial recovery after disasters. And on top of all of that, they are far too often the victims of the significant spikes in the incidents of gendered violence that occurred during and after disaster situations.
With that in mind, it may be unsurprising that women are driving for change in strength and in number, leading climate activism and advocacy activity. But that participation does not extend through all levels. There remains a lag in women’s representation in leadership and in decision-making roles across policy development, politics, finance, industry, business and science.
Evidence demonstrates that inclusive decision making and equity in leadership results in better environmental outcomes. But in these critical leadership spaces, women continue to be underrepresented.
So here, on The Sustainable Hour today, and with a climate lens for this International Women’s Day, I think that Balance the Scales asks us to not only look at the disproportionate and unjust impacts of climate change, but also at how power, opportunity and responsibility are shared as we meet the challenge.
I think Balance the Scales is not just about equality, safety and justice in terms of emergency situations or within the confines of communities or workplaces. It’s also about equality, justice and safety for all of us in our shared future.
Lauren: (04:57)
Wow, that was such a good… yeah, amazing, Jodie, you’ve done your research!
Jodie: (05:05)
Thank you!
Lauren: (05:06)
Yeah, thank you so much for giving us the overview of the importance of this matter and also what ‘Balance the Scales’ means. Our guest today is Lucy Richardson. Lucy is a lecturer in the School of Media, Film and Journalism and the Deputy Director of the Monash Climate Change Communication Research Hub.
I was actually lucky enough to work with her last year on a really, really cool project. And so I was lucky enough to work her in today.
I also just want to acknowledge that Nicola Rivers, who’s the co-CEO of Environmental Justice Australia, was meant to be joining us today but unfortunately had a personal matter, so I do just want to recognise her and say: thank you for saying yes – and that the boys will definitely get her on next time.
So, Lucy, we know women are not always recognised for the contributions they make, and as we are celebrating International Women’s Day, it’s a perfect time to remedy that. So we’d love to hear from you about the women or woman that you admire in terms of taking action for climate justice.
Lucy Richardson: (06:18)
Yeah, that’s a great point to raise. And it’s a tricky one to answer because there are so many amazing women acting in this space, and I work with some of them, which is fantastic. One that does stand out for me, it’s some of the amazing and passionate First Nations women around the world who are fighting for their people and places rights under a changing climate.
In Australia, for example, Murrawah Johnson comes to mind. She’s a Wirdi woman from the Birri Gubba Nation in the Mackay–Whitsundays region of Queensland. That’s where I used to live for a little while. And she’s one who has been formally recognised for her work. She was Young Environmentalist of the Year in 2017, and she’s done some amazing work collaborating on legal cases, writing submissions to the United Nations, etc.
And she’s been really active and powerful in pushing back against the establishment of new coal mines in particular, like the Adani and Carmichael and Waratah mines in the Galilee Basin.
Jodie: (07:19)
I love hearing about women doing amazing things like that. That’s fantastic. When I was thinking about this question, I might jump in on this one as well, I went to a very different place in my thinking and actually thought about the last words, the last messages of Jane Goodall recently. And her messaging was so simple in many ways that everybody makes choices and small actions that we do accumulate to make real change and that we all can make a difference. I thought that was in a very different way, not that sort of powerful, challenging action, but a very accessible and admirable message. So I really liked that one as well.
Lucy: (08:11)
Absolutely.
Lauren: (08:12)
So good, Jodie. That was actually my answer so I’m very jealous that you said it. I should have spoken first. But another one that comes to mind is Greta Thunberg, and I say that like a lot of people’s first answer will be that but I think that her strength in adversity over the last few years has just been amazing to watch and she was one of the first stories of like a woman my age or somewhere around my age actually standing up for climate justice. So I think that yeah, she’s always going to have a little special place in my heart along with Jane Goodall and certainly highlights some of the terrible treatment that women can have when they do speak up.
Jodie: (09:01)
Absolutely.
Lauren: (09:03)
Yeah, when I first entered in the climate advocacy space, like that was one of my main concerns. Not that I’m mainstream or anything, but you you do see how people treat women like Greta. And yeah, I think that can be disheartening if you don’t even about and look at good things too.
Jodie: (09:29)
I actually think that one of the things that is really powerful for women to think about and to take on in their world is that it’s okay to ruffle feathers. I think we’ve seen a little bit of news over the last few days around difficult women and you know what, I love being a difficult woman. I don’t mind ruffling a feather here and there for a good cause and I think that it’s something that, you know, there’s a lot of power in being comfortable with that.
Lauren: (09:58)
Yes, Jodie! Every time I’m on here, I just love talking to you, Jodie. The last time we were on, Lucy, it was like in November. And yeah, the boys who normally host this were like, ‘Do you guys want to do the International Women’s Day thing?’ And yeah, here we are!
Jodie: (10:20)
Here we are!
Lauren: (10:22)
I think there needs to be more space for ‘difficult women’. I say that in quotation marks, because often they’re the people that are able to actually create change by being difficult.
Jodie: (10:35)
Absolutely, in driving conversation. So that’s probably a good seg, Lucy. I understand that in your work you’ve been researching Australians’ perceptions and understanding of climate change. And we were really curious about whether there’s a gender divide in that space.
Lucy: (10:52)
That’s a great question and the answer is yes and no. It really depends on which of the perceptions or understandings that we’re looking at. We’ve done a few surveys across Australia in recent years and on average women tend to be more concerned about climate change than men. But a global study that I’ve seen on Facebook done by some of the colleagues in the US actually found that that gender gap is prevalent in high emissions countries like Australia and the US, but not in low emissions countries.
So that sort of highlights that when you’re on the front lines and you’re seeing this every day and you’re not buffered from it through sitting in an air conditioned car or an air conditioned office, you know, they’re communities that are really facing it and that gap is not there. They’re all much more concerned. If we look at jump over though and think about energy sources, attitudes towards the different energy sources.
We did a survey recently in partnership with Griffith University and we found that women were considerably more concerned about the introduction of nuclear power as an energy source compared with men, but we didn’t find differences for any other energy source. Coal, oil, gas, solar, wind, no difference, but nuclear was a hot button.
And when it comes to policy support, this one’s a really interesting one. Women can be two to three times as likely as men to tell us they don’t know how they feel about or don’t understand different policy options, especially ones relating to fossil fuels, like phasing out mining, providing subsidies to fossil fuel, building new coal-fired plants as old ones are retired, things like that. And that’s a really significant issue because it means that while the women might be really concerned, they don’t necessarily feel like they’re equipped to make informed decisions about policies.
Lauren: (12:40)
That’s really interesting. I was reading this thing the other day and it was the different positions of climate change where there’s a large majority of people that, and it may be these women in that category, they’re educated on the issue of climate change but they’re not sure how or what to do about it and I think that sometimes that comes from a lack of time and also capacity and space to even think about that.
Lucy: (13:11.626)
And there’s so much information out there trying to work out which of the actual things I need to do, the best things or the most useful things or the things that I actually can achieve. It can be really hard to figure out.
Jodie: (13:22.982)
I wonder if there’s a bit of an old school gendered piece in there. And this is just sort of me having a thought process around this, there is this old idea that women tend to like to have all of the boxes ticked before they take action. So for example, in recruitment, it’s a big thing when women are applying for jobs, if they can see that there are seven selection criteria and they hit six of them, they’ll think, ‘Gosh, I can’t really apply for that because I don’t hit that last selection criteria.’ And the gendered skew on that is quite different. Men will feel quite confident to apply if they only hit three of the selection criteria thereabouts. So it’s a really interesting thing. And I’m wondering if there’s something like that coming into it that women are wanting to be as informed as they can be before they sort of commit to a position. Perhaps it’s a speculation.
Lucy: (14:22)
And we don’t know. Something for us to research and find out!
Jodie: (14:27)
Social conditioning has a lot to answer for and it could be playing in.
Lucy: (14:33)
Yeah, well, I could also be playing in the positive. If we see that historically women have been given those carer roles and hence caring for the environment is an acceptable outlet for our concerns. Do you know what I mean? As opposed to men who are, that burden of care has not necessarily historically been part of their mandate, so to speak.
Lauren: (14:57)
Yeah, it’s an interesting conversation to have, I think, is that something that is, I guess, more socially acceptable is caring deeply about things, is sometimes more of a woman’s role in society. And look, we can talk on and on about that kind of concept and that issue, but I do think there’s something to be said about making a space where anyone can and stand up and talk about something that they’re passionate about, that’s right. And you know, I’m not a researcher like Lucy, so I have no problems with saying without full confidence is that I kind of agree with you Jodie is that, yeah, I think a lot of the women that I surround myself by, they won’t articulate an opinion, especially on something as divisive as politics without having done research and without, you know, personally, yeah, that’s just something that I do too. And so perhaps that is something to consider.
Lucy, you mentioned nuclear was a bit more divisive with genders. Have you got any thoughts about that? Whilst I acknowledge obviously there wasn’t anything different in the study, just like any thoughts you have about.
Lucy: (16:15)
My thought actually taps back into the environmental angle. There’s a bit of a tension there in that, for example, in the last federal election where nuclear was rolled out as an alternative because of its lack of carbon emissions. But if women were concerned about the other environmental impacts about nuclear, then that tension could lead them to go that way whereas perhaps the men weren’t necessarily saying, I mean, again, we’re talking averages here. So obviously there’s going to be women and men on both sides of this argument. But yeah, it’s possible that that is the case. And it was actually more of a broader set of concerns rather than, if that makes sense.
Lauren: (17:02)
Yeah, no, I think that’s very fair. And the other thing that I thought was interesting in your answer was a discussion on, I guess, a little bit of class and the impacts of climate change and how people are being affected by them. And I think that that’s really interesting is that people who have the ability to turn on the air conditioner and escape some of this wild weather that we’re having means that they’re possibly less likely to be concerned, think that’s really, really interesting. Like I genuinely hadn’t thought about how that would impact, I guess, gender gap in different countries.
Lucy: (17:42)
Yeah, and even within Australia, the vulnerable communities, know, those people, the elderly people who might not have the, you know, the finances or might live in a house that doesn’t have air conditioning, you know, those kind of that within Australia, people are in that similar vulnerable position.
Jodie: (18:02)
And I think in the introduction there, I spoke a little bit about having full representation and inclusion in decision making. And of course, being International Women’s Day, the focus is around women on that. But I think that these kind of stories that you hear and considering those groups and cohorts of community who experience things…
Lauren: (18:02)
Even subgroups, yeah.
Jodie: (18:31)
…at a different level and so have different thinking around things. Inclusion in decision making and planning of those perspectives is so important. So that inclusion and equality of course should be extended to all cohorts of the community.
And I’ll just say we focus on women today because it is International Women’s Day, but it really speaks to the importance of having those perspectives brought in because they do see a different side to the same object that we’re all looking at.
Lucy: (19:06)
And over time, I’ll give you a peek back into my past. When I had my eldest child, I was actually living in Mackay and we were not in a very good financial position. And so I would take my child to the local supermarket to get the air conditioning during summer. So I would just literally go there and walk around just so that we could enjoy the air conditioning. Now, my house has air conditioning. Like, over time as you know situations change that also plays a part in our perceptions.
Jodie: (19:44)
Absolutely does.
Lauren: (19:45)
Yeah, linking back to my past with you Lucy, part of that study that I was working with you was about cognitive biases and I remember one of the interesting things was that if people experience the impacts or have a memory of a natural disaster or something bad related to climate change, they’re more likely to be concerned and act on it. And so there was a really interesting part of research that was talking about the Black Summer bushfires – or even floods or cyclones or that kind of stuff, when it is memorable or when you know someone who has been impacted by a natural disaster or heat stroke or something like that, people are more likely to care. And so I think that over the coming years, we’ll still see these natural disasters worsening and perhaps more of I guess, a community understanding going forward. And so I think, yeah, I personally went
Lucy: (20:46)
Yeah, we already have seen a shift there because Australia, the land of droughts and flooding rains, initially a lot of people didn’t recognise the climate shift in that because we’ve always had them. So now they got so huge and so that we generally we all see it happening like porno coal and the floods she’s got now.
Lauren: (21:15)
I need to recognise it a bit more, but it is hard. It’s a hard discussion to have because it means that you’re waiting for these natural disasters to occur for people to wake up, which is why conversations like these are also needed, just to kind of speed that process along so we don’t have to have that impact. But I wanted to ask you, Lucy, when it comes to communicating climate change, does the research suggest that messages matter? And so in other words, does it make a difference when women are the ones leading the conversation, whether in media, science, communication and politics? And are there any gaps in how women’s voices are represented in that space?
Lucy: (21:59)
History in many countries has marginalised women’s voices, as Jodie has mentioned, especially in the public sphere where these societal decisions are made. And in Australia, we’ve seen some terrible treatment of women politicians, for example. But the receptiveness to women’s voices leading these conversations depends a lot on who the audience is and who the women are.
Messages absolutely matter, but so do the audiences and the contextual complexities to this is that not one size fits all situations. So we listen to the people we trust who are saying things that resonate with us, things that match our values and our concerns. Most of the research that I’ve actually seen has been more focused on the jobs of the messages rather than gender.
So for example, you we know that information about climate change people in Australia trust scientists, we trust our family and friends, we trust medical professionals, but we do not trust politicians and journalists, sadly. NGOs are highly trusted by people who agree with their values and highly distrusted by people who don’t, so quite polarising.
So if we add gender into that mix, it’s likely to be dependent on the audience’s personal and cultural norms surrounding women and their relationship to whatever aspect of climate that is. So is it acceptable or expected that women will talk about this particular topic? So it depends.
Jodie: (23:26)
So is it good to just have as many people as possible involved in the conversations and to keep the conversation as live as possible?
Lucy: (23:37)
Yes, yes. And we can do that. We can do that at home, family and friends. Like if family and friends are so trusted, but we’re not talking, we can do that. We can stimulate those conversations and actually get that ball rolling. You know, you’re in the grocery store and you’re talking to your kids about the impact of what you’re choosing to buy or, you know, or how you got there. You know, did we take the car or do we cycle? Do we walk? Do we, you know, those kinds of conversations about the everyday can really make a difference.
Jodie: (24:06)
And I think that the power of the kitchen table conversation is really probably overlooked and underestimated in our communities. But those kitchen table conversations sometimes can actually lead to real change. They can create that set of standards within a family, within a friend group, and it then has that ripple effect out.
And I would suggest that those kitchen table conversations are probably a place where women do actually have a lot of power in terms of managing messages and holding space for those conversations and making sure that those conversations are had. So I love the idea of just making sure that as many people as possible are talking because that is how we will get exposure to different perceptions, to different information, to have the opportunity to challenge our own thinking and the thinking of others, which are equally important. And I think that there’s a lot of value in that. So I love that thinking.
Lauren: (25:14)
I have a half thought question, so we’re going to explore this together. So I like the idea of those table conversations. I do think that those are very individualised and if people are within their own bubble, sometimes it’s hard because there’ll be some people who aren’t exposed to those conversations. Is there a systematic change that obviously I don’t expect you to solve a problem in one answer. I didn’t even prep you with this question. But is there some form of systematic change that perhaps we could implement or like even how we word things and messages? So like saying methane gas instead of natural gas or like, you know, how do we pique the interest of people who perhaps don’t have exposure to others in this kind of circle?
Lucy: (26:13)
Yeah, a couple of the things that my colleagues have tried. So we have programs that go out through news and through commercial radio, for example, and bringing in conversations or talking about personal related issues. For example, one of the articles that they published was actually about the climate change impacts on pets. How many people actually know what temperature it’s not a great idea to take your dog for a walk in? It’s actually 24°C degrees. That’s really, really low! 24 degrees, the paws of your dog, for example, on a hot pavement on a 24°C degree day can actually be problematic. Particularly if they’re furry, like they’re really heavily furred, then they can’t, you know, they’ve got a pant to get the, to cool down and it’s a lot harder for them. So like, how astounding is that? That’s a great conversation starter and that can bring in people who might never have thought about this before.
Lauren: (27:16)
You just did! Amazing!
Lucy: (27:18)
Blow your mind, right?
Jodie: (27:19)
Yeah!
Lauren: (27:20)
I can say that everyone who’s listening to this, just their mouth fell open.
Lucy: (27:25)
Yeah, right? Mine too, mine too!
Jodie: (27:28)
As a dog lover, I think that’s very relatable. That’s something that shows coming from very different angles, all coming back to the same sort of main point is an amazing way to go. I think that will have people thinking.
Lauren: (27:46)
Yeah, okay, so finding different ways to connect essentially. And so finding the middle point where you, there’s an overlap, it’s like a Venn diagram, and connecting to them through that. I think that’s really… Yeah.
Lucy: (28:02)
So I just thinking the other that that radio program that I was talking about, it’s really interesting because the radio presenters themselves, this is commercial radio. This is like hit and know, triple kind of stuff. Those presenters haven’t traditionally talked about serious issues like this. And so bringing in new people in these conversations and putting those conversations in places where, you know, they might not have come up before can actually be really powerful. And that project has actually been really interesting because their audiences do want to hear it.
And so now that we’ve got some of those presenters on board and one of our staff members actually comes on for interviews each week. And so they talk about all sorts of issues relating to climate. It might be energy, it might be transport, who knows what. And they have these fantastic conversations. And so they can hit some of those myths that are out there and help people figure out what’s actually not real that’s out there trending on TikTok and all that sort of stuff.
Yeah, it’s really good to bring in other programs have brought in medicine, for example, medical professionals, we really trust them. So if they’re talking about it with their communities, with their clients, their patients, I mean, how great is that? Particularly if you’re in a vulnerable condition, like, you know, how many people are understand what the changes in our climate is going to mean for their heart condition, or for their cancer diagnosis and treatment or for you know, the main so they’re risk for dengue. Mosquitoes are moving where they are now, so the dengue is shifting. So, you what does that mean for us? So these are great ways to bring in new conversations, bringing in new people to talk, as well as bringing in new angles or perspectives on that.
Lauren: (29:47)
My goodness, like, you’re so cool, Lucy! That’s really amazing! Like, that’s something that I’m going to use in my day to day. And I think, like, as you’re talking about that, I remember another project that some people in my cohort did was looking at news anchors as well and seeing how they present climate change and that kind of stuff. Cause that’s something, you know, if the demographic that perhaps are most likely to disagree with climate change, like think about where people are getting access to their information and who they trust. I think that’s really important. So yeah, I kind of love that. Yeah.
Lucy: (30:31)
We have some amazing women climate scientists who are the byline. So they’re the authors of those news articles that go out. Yeah. Power Women.
Jodie: (30:42)
Fantastic. Absolutely, would love that. That might be a really great lead into this question and this is one we were all going to perhaps weigh in on a little bit. But as I spoke about at the beginning of the session today, the theme this year for International Women’s Day is ‘Balance the Scales’. And so, Lucy, we’re interested to understand why do you think we need to balance the scales and how might we go about this?
Lucy: (31:17)
Balancing the scales…
Jodie: (31:19)
Just a small question for you!
Lucy: (31:21)
Just a small one, let’s just solve the world’s problems!
Lauren: (31:24)
I see how well you listened to Jodie’s introduction.
Lucy: (31:28)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think for me, there’s actually a couple of parts to that. There’s balancing the scales in that, like, the conversations and who’s helping make the decisions in Australia, what decisions are being made and where. So even choosing like, how are women’s voices helping us decide which topics are even important to discuss? Do you know what I mean? So there’s that aspect.
But also balancing the scales in women’s voices from other countries, other communities who might be not heard. I know, whose voices are being silenced and how should we be hearing from that? I think too, like here in Australia, getting more Indigenous voices out there and helping the rest of us understand. I mean, they’ve got thousands and thousands of years and generations of knowledge through changing natural climates. So like they’ve got so much we can learn from, but you know, us as colonial settlers, we don’t, it’s not there. It’s not prominent in our conversations and in our policy decision-making. And I think that’s a real gap.
So, balancing the scales there, there’s like three different perspectives just in that one answer. Sorry, just like to throw that out there and make it even more confusing for us all.
Jodie: (32:49)
No, I actually think that’s really fantastic because again it goes back to that lots of perspectives involved in planning and decision making and that sort of response space which I think is just it’s a bit of a no-brainer really that we will have better plans, better decisions if we are seeing lots of perspectives and valuing the knowledge and the wisdom of groups across our whole community and when I say that our global community as well. I think that’s really absolutely sort of the fundamental piece of balancing the scales isn’t it, bringing everybody to the party.
Lauren: (33:37)
And I think being smart about it as well, because like, I think there’s a big part, like, I hear this concept of what a lot of bringing people to the table and figuring out how to do that, like, it’s not just a one off tokenistic survey or something like that, like that leads to fatigue because you get another survey and you’re like, oh, gosh, I think that you have to think about the people in your life and we can do this on an individual scale. Think about who you’re surrounding yourself by and if there is diversity in opinions and cultures and can you go out of your way to celebrate someone else, whether that be a female friend or, you know, attend Diwali or celebrations and that kind of stuff. Like being, I guess, I don’t know, my personal philosophy is that relationships are really important and connections are really important in this kind of balancing.
And so, making sure that you’re being friendly without an ulterior motive and you know just trying to be open I think is quite important and you know something that Jodie and I were talking about this morning was the importance of having diverse like female friendships in our lives as well like I now go to this book club and it’s me, my other friend who’s 21 and then it’s just women ranging from 40 to 80 and there’s so much and it’s amazing must I say everyone should join a book club please do Lucy you can come join mine anytime but like it’s just amazing because you get such like diversity of opinions
Lucy: (35:13)
I’m so jealous!
Lucy: (35:24)
I have a friend with an international online knitting club. Their conversations would also be equally amazing.
Jodie: (35:32)
Amazing! I think that diversity of experience and life experience is just an amazing thing. I actually am also part of a club where I’m probably one of the younger people and I don’t get to say that too often these days but that diversity of experience in the group and that people from lots of different professions and people who have come from different kind of lifestyles in one place. And I think there is a lot of amazing value in that. You can learn a little bit every day and you can think about things a little bit differently every time you interact, just because of that difference of perspective. So being open to that is really important.
Lucy: (36:19)
I love the intergenerational aspect of what Lauren was saying too. The fact that older people have so much life experience and bridging that with the passion of the youth and bringing all that together gives you such a… And you get the people in that kind of middle set where they’re going through career development or family development and you’ve got this such a rich spectrum across the generation. Like, how powerful is that? Do we tap into that when we’re doing policy making? Do we tap into that when we’re making decisions about how we’ll run our household? Sometimes, sometimes not.
Jodie: (37:02)
Sometimes not. And I think one of the beautiful women that I work with, she has said a few times, we all want the benefit of the village, but we’re all not all great at being good villagers. And she says that from time to time. And I think that that sort of is part of that, that wisdom to draw on the valuable things that everybody in the village can contribute, think is something that perhaps as a society we’ve lost a little bit of. And maybe we can start to make a move back to that.
Lucy: (37:41)
I think too, if you imagine yourself jumping on a train as we do in Melbourne, you’re jumping on a train, you might be standing at the train station, you’ve got your earbuds in, you’re looking at your phone, watching a video or whatever, scrolling, and we don’t have those conversations anymore. I remember as a teen, I’d stand at the bus stop and actually have conversations. And nowadays, we are so stressed that we have to shut down. ‘I can’t deal… I can’t people anymore. And so I’ll just close off.’ And I just think we’re missing a lot, but it’s a coping mechanism. How do we fix that so that we don’t have to feel so closed off?
Jodie: (38:23)
Sorry, leave you on… It’s a whole lot of the podcast, think.
Lauren: (38:28)
Wow, I think that’s so good. Can I just say I’m so like, the ‘You have to be a villager to have a village’. That is my go-to motto. Yeah, if I’m in bed and I’m like, I don’t want to go to this party, I don’t want to go to this thing, like, you have to be a villager. Like, you just have to.
Lucy: (38:45)
That’s my new tagline.
Lauren: (38:47)
Yes, it’s the best tagline. I agree, like I find that too, is that as a society, we’re becoming more, sorry, this is like a favorite topic of mine and you press the button so there’s no… But I think that we need to get better at reconnecting and actually like having time for each other and those random conversations. Like there is so much beauty in just walking up to someone and saying hi or passing someone in the street and, you know, offering to carry their bags or, know, like, let’s bring, let’s bring that back like 2026. Like, let’s do it.
Jodie: (39:27)
Yeah, I also like the beautiful difference that you can find and I think a lot of folk are very comfortable and this is perhaps what you touched on earlier with the kitchen table conversation, Lauren. A lot of people are probably very used to talking to their friends who all feel the same way and where the gold is is when you talk to somebody who looks at things completely differently to you and that sort of more challenging conversation and that conversation where you can respectfully think about things from a different angle and be curious and try to understand why somebody is thinking about it differently or has come to a different conclusion.
I think there’s so much value in that curiosity and that sort of willingness to sit in a little bit of discomfort in order to learn a little bit. And I think that’s probably something that I’ve seen people shy away from a little bit and would like to again encourage the women but everybody to get out there and sort of be prepared to sit in discomfort with some of these conversations and talk to people who think differently. That’s how we grow and learn.
Lucy: (40:44)
We’ve come back to that ‘difficult women’-thing. I’m going to be a difficult woman now and I’m going to have those conversations and I’m going to talk to people!
Jodie: (40:52)
You got to!
Lauren: (40:53)
Yes, that is like, I’m just telling everything to these people that are listening, but that’s one of my favorite things is being a difficult woman. And I love like cracking someone who doesn’t want to talk and then finding out what they’re passionate about and getting like there’s so much joy in when you’re like, love fishing or you love sewing. Then, you know, just, just is so beautiful when you can get to that point. I think it’s amazing. So takeaways is: Be difficult.
Jodie: (41:26)
Difficult we’re wearing with a bit of a badge of honour, I have to say. I think to challenge respectfully, if somebody thinks that you’re difficult for that, I’m okay with it. I’m actually very comfortable to be considered difficult for challenging respectfully. I think that’s okay.
Lucy: (41:49)
And I think too, tapping into that underlying care that we actually want to find things in common. You know, when you come at a conversation and things are difficult and tense, you’ll often find there’s actually some underpinning connection. We’re both scared. We might be scared of slightly different things, but underneath that, we’re actually scared of the same thing. Do you know what I mean? it. And finding those common points gives us somewhere to build from. And that’s how we can find those answers together that we might not find on our own and can really enrich those outcomes as opposed to the whole, you disagree with me, you’re an idiot, I’m going to unfriend you.
Jodie: (42:29)
Absolutely. I agree.
Lucy: (42:33)
Showing my age there, unfriending people.
Lauren: (42:35)
More like Lucy, all ages and all like Tross. We’ve all been there. High school existed. So I guess the last thing that I want to explore with all of you and by that I mean is what, because it’s International Women’s Day, I want to kind of get your opinions. What would you say to young women who want to make a difference on climate? And, you know, what are things that give you hope and, you know, bolster you to keep going? And I’ll allow you two to go first so that I can build up my answer to make sure it’s on par or better than yours.
Jodie: (43:29)
I like that. That’s a good strategic thinker right there, Lauren.
Lauren: (43:32)
I’m gonna do it in an interview, though.
Lucy: (43:36)
So I teach a unit called Climate Change Communication at university. And in my class, the student’s final assessment is a piece of communication about something related to climate change. And one of the things that I’ve found in recent years, and it’s been absolutely fantastic, so many people coming in and they’re making videos or blog posts or whatever about the things that you can do in your own life every day. You might be say, how to address fast fashion.
So they come up with these amazing pieces of communication just to share like a TikTok video, a series of TikTok videos telling people how you can do this, this or this instead. And you know, where you can go and what to look out for and like all this great stuff. And it just brings me so much hope. The women in particular in the unit love doing the fast fashion one and giving all the other options and going through and explaining their journey and how they’ve moved away from it and what you can do and blah, blah, blah. And it’s just, it’s brilliant to see the passion coming out.
But in there every day. And I really think that’s fantastic. And definitely, if you could do a small thing, you’ve got to start somewhere.
Jodie: (44:43)
Absolutely. I love that as well. I think that’s and I might hit you up for some tips about the fast fashion later.
Lauren: (44:52)
What I’m hearing is: get on the TikTok drive.
Jodie: (44:55)
Yeah, sounds like it, doesn’t it? For me, what I would say to young women who want to make a difference, I might sound like a broken record because it’s probably the thing that I always say, but it’s that you can make a difference and you should have a voice and don’t be told no, don’t be told that you can’t. Let me be strengths-based about it rather than saying the don’t. Be unapologetic in having a view and coming forward with it and setting standards within your own realm and the things that you can control.
In terms of what gives me hope, think seeing a little bit of a movement in terms of young women in media, in the media space, young women who are taking a balanced approach who are not sort of being washed by one side of politics or the other. No green washing, white washing or any other kind of washing going on in that, but taking a very balanced and sort of researched approach to media and seeing this a little bit more. And again, maybe that TikTok revolution and having a platform to come forward with these things.
I am seeing a generation of young, smart, informed, articulate women. And Lauren, here you are, an example of exactly that actually too. And that gives me tremendous hope because I can see young women who will own their space at the table in the decision making processes, in the leadership roles. And I think that the world will be a better place as they start to take their place in those spaces. not that women aren’t doing that at the moment, but I think we will see the volume of women doing that grow. And I’m so hopeful and heartened by that. And I think that they will make a big difference and make big change.
Lauren: (47:20)
That’s amazing! I think being, I’m only 21. So to young women, I would say Let’s be friends, here. I get so excited to meet other amazing people in this space. So I think, yeah, it’s really exciting to have other people in similar walks of life and connecting with them at different panels or protests or stuff like that is really exciting for me and that’s part of the stuff that makes me hopeful. And I think, yeah, it’s hard to say something new that I haven’t already said because I just do believe in being open and being part of community and so I think I would encourage them to show up alone to events that they’re scared to attend.
And in terms of hope, I just get so much hope when I talk to wonderful women like yourselves or I get to catch up with my best friends and you know I just get to look at how much beauty there is and how much it just reminds me of the stuff that we have to protect and the stuff that we are protecting and so I guess there’s hope in that in itself is that even as the world goes on and it gets a little bit crazy every time, at least tomorrow morning you’ll wake up and the sun will still rise and you know, there’ll be birds to identify and rocks to look under and all that kind of stuff. I think, yeah. I’ve got a bird watching if you didn’t catch that.
Jodie: (48:59)
You’re about 30 years early on that. But that makes me want to say to young people, be my friend as well. I want to do that too.
Lucy: (49:11)
Count me in.
Lauren: (49:12)
Yeah, come to me first. Check out who the cool ones are.
Jodie: (49:15)
Love that.
Jingle (49:17)
Lauren: (49:24)
Well, I think I think if there’s no other lasting messages I just want to acknowledge and say thank you so much to yourself Lucy and also my wonderful co-host Jodie for coming on today and taking some time out of your busy schedule to yeah to talk to us, I think personally I’ve really enjoyed it, would come again.
Jodie: (49:49)
Yeah!
Lucy: (49:50)
It’s fantastic conversation. Reach out if you want to follow up on that earlier comment and we can talk. I’m going to have those conversations and I’m going to talk to people. I’m going to be a difficult woman.
Jodie: (50:04)
That’s right!
. . .
SONG: ‘Get loud’ (50:06)
Jodie: (50:09)
It’s beyond time for us to get serious about this. And it’s beyond time for us to actually take action, get loud and have voices.
Jodie: (50:33)
Let’s do the very basic maths. Women represent half of the population. And if you don’t have them involved in being part of the solution, you’re missing out on such a wealth of resource and influence that could absolutely be contributing to something powerful.
Verse 1:
Storm’s brewin’ down the coastline, rain’s in the air
Houses fallin’, but no one cares
When the world gets heavy, don’t you hide your light away
Lift it up, shake it out, let your heartbeat say:
Pre-Chorus:
No more waiting, no more doubt
No, we won’t take it, we going to shout:
Chorus:
Get loud! – turn the volume up
We are the voices of change
Get loud! – feel the power
We’re already half the world
in service to the Earth
Lauren: (51:31)
“Just so excited for the future and see I feel like I’m ready to take on the world.”
Verse 2:
From the town hall floor to the flood-plain mud
Women buildin’ community out of fire and flood
We plan, we heal, we make it real
We’re being heard cause we speak the truth
Pre-Chorus:
I got the love, I got the grace
I’m gonna energise the human race – hey!
Chorus:
Get loud! – turn the volume up
We are the voices of change
Get loud! – feel the power
We’re already half the world
in service to the Earth
Bridge:
Lift the unheard, bring ’em near
Every story we gotta hear
First Nations, sisters, every friend
Voices rise and the walls bend
Jodie: (52:30)
“Women have a, really, historically proven innate ability to bring communities together to influence the way that families move, to influence across generations, and those sort of things are so important in this.”
Breakdown:
Be loud – insist and persist
Be kind – lift each other up
Be proud – ’cause this is our time
Jodie:
“Could be contributing to something powerful.”
Final Chorus:
Get loud! – turn the volume up
We are the voices of change
Get loud! – feel the power
We’re already half the world
in service to the Earth
Jodie:
“Get loud and have voices!”
. . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
CALENDARS
Events we have talked about in The Sustainable Hour
Events in Victoria
The following is a collation of Victorian climate change events, activities, seminars, exhibitions, meetings and protests. Most are free, many ask for RSVP (which lets the organising group know how many to expect), some ask for donations to cover expenses, and a few require registration and fees. This calendar is provided as a free service by volunteers of the Victorian Climate Action Network. Information is as accurate as possible, but changes may occur.
PETITIONS AND OPEN LETTERS
you could add your name to
→ List of running petitions where we encourage you to add your name
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
THE SUSTAINABLE HOUR ON AIR
LIVE STREAMING
on Wednesdays
The Sustainable Hour is streamed live on the Internet and broadcasted on FM airwaves in the Geelong region every Wednesday from 11am to 12pm (Melbourne time): 94.7 FM.
→ To listen to the program on your computer or phone, go to www.947thepulse.com where you then click on ‘Listen’ on the top right of the page.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ARCHIVE
Over 600 hours of sustainable podcast episodes
Listen to all of The Sustainable Hour radio shows as well as our special Regenerative Hours, Climate Revolution and Force of Life episodes in full length.
→ Archive on climatesafety.info – with additional links
→ Archive on podcasts.apple.com – phone friendly archive
NEWSLETTER
Receive our podcast newsletter in your mailbox
We send a newsletter out approximately four-six times a year. Email address and surname is mandatory – all other fields are optional. You can unsubscribe at any time.
FOLLOW, INTERACT AND SHARE
The Sustainable Hour in social media
• Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheSustainableHour → Front covers
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/TheSustainableHour
• Blue Sky: www.bsky.app/profile/thesustainablehour.bsky.social
• Twitter: www.twitter.com/SustainableHour
(NB: we stopped using X/Twitter after it was hijacked-acquired by climate deniers)
• YouTube: www.youtube.com/c/thesustainablehour
Great if you’ll share the news about this podcast episode on your social media platforms!
→ Podcasts and posts on this website about the climate emergency
Sharing solutions that make the climate safer and our cities more liveable