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The Sustainable Hour no. 552 | Transcript | Podcast notes | 10,788 words, 57 minutes read time.
When gas giants fall
community stands tall
This episode focuses on the power of community, the ongoing fight against fossil fuel expansion, and finding strength and solutions through collective action and empathy. Our guest is Belinda Baggs, co-founder of Surfers for Climate.
. . .
Opening up a friendly dialogue about gas
Mik opens by reflecting on the actions of young climate activist Alexa Stuart from Rising Tide, who interrupted a press conference to highlight the government’s hypocrisy in claiming to care for young people’s mental health while approving new coal and gas projects. Alexa spoke with SBS of her eco-anxiety and fear for a future filled with emissions-fuelled disasters. This leads Mik to ponder a different approach – engaging directly and respectfully with the fossil fuel industry. He shares a letter he wrote to a spokesperson from Viva Energy in Geelong, challenging their public statements that a new gas terminal would be “good news”.
Mik questions the industry’s claims that gas is:
Reliable? – He points out that gas is a finite resource, toxic, and carries a risk of explosion.
Affordable? – He notes that gas is currently the most expensive form of energy and is the primary driver of high electricity prices.
Good for employment? – Mik argues that with the rise of renewables, fossil fuel jobs are on their way out, and we need a just transition plan for workers.
Mik’s central point is a call for more open and respectful dialogue between climate activists and the fossil fuel industry to find common ground. You can read his letter in full on this blogpost.
“Mr Albanese, you say you care about young people. And yet since getting elected your government has approved 33 new coal and gas projects. You are condemning people like me to a lifetime of climate disasters. Of course we have poor mental health issues. When will you listen to young people? When will your government stop approving new coal and gas projects?”
~ Alexa Stuart, young climate activist from Rising Tide
. . .
Colin Mockett OAM’s global outlook
Our climate news reporter Colin Mockett OAM delivers some bad news this week, much of it related to gas.
WMO report – A new report from the World Meteorological Organization found that 2024 saw new record highs for global sea surface temperatures and greenhouse gas concentrations. Last year, atmospheric carbon dioxide was at its highest level in 800,000 years.
Activist lawfare – At a closed-door conference in Brisbane, top oil and gas executives revealed their biggest future threat is not government opposition or protests, but “activist lawfare”. Companies like Santos and Woodside see public interest climate litigation as the most dangerous threat to their business. Their strategies include attempting to delegitimise plaintiffs.
Six new gas projects – Despite global calls to cut back, six massive gas projects are in the pipeline in Australia:
• Barossa (NT): Run by Santos, this project is expected to release 380 million tonnes of climate pollution over 25 years.
• Scarborough-Pluto Train 2 (WA): An extension of Woodside’s existing project, it is about 80% complete.
• Surat Phase 2 (QLD): An Arrow Energy (Shell and PetroChina) venture to build up to 450 new production wells.
• Narrabri (NSW): A Santos project to drill up to 850 coal-seam gas wells over 95,000 hectares.
• Beetaloo Basin (NT): Estimated to contain up to 500 trillion cubic feet of gas.
• Browse Basin (WA): Considered Australia’s biggest reserve of untapped conventional gas, with potential emissions three times Australia’s current annual total.
Economic costs – Federal Treasury figures show climate-related weather events, such as cyclones and floods, cost the Australian economy over $2 billion in the first half of this year alone.
A positive note – Along the Colorado River in the United States, First Nations people are trialling projects that place solar panels over the river. These panels reduce water evaporation while generating carbon-free electricity.
. . .
Belinda Baggs – Surfers for Climate
Our guest is Belinda Baggs, a mum, surfer, global surf activist for Patagonia, and co-founder of the organisation Surfers for Climate.
Belinda recently moved to Yamba in New South Wales and has experienced the direct impacts of climate change, including three floods and a cyclone in the last year. She describes the terrifying sound of 100-year-old gum trees snapping in 100 km/h winds and the community anxiety that followed. However, she also saw the community empower each other, filling sandbags and helping out.
The aftermath has been devastating for the ocean. The Clarence River has been running brown for months, leading to a “blackwater event” where depleted oxygen levels killed off huge amounts of marine life. The water has been too putrid to enter on some days, with stories of people getting serious infections.
Belinda started Surfers for Climate in 2019 to empower and mobilise surfers for positive climate action. They have had major successes, including – alongside other organisations – stopping the PEP11 gas exploration project off the New South Wales coast and getting legislation passed to ban offshore sea mining in all NSW waters.
A key insight is that women often lead their communities in climate action. This led to the recent Water Women’s Campout, a three-day event that brought together over 100 women to build a strong support network and share tools for change. The event included wellness sessions to tackle eco-anxiety, letter-writing workshops, and practical restoration work with OzFish.
Surfers for Climate’s annual Water Women’s Campout, held last weekend at Ballina on Bundjalung Country, is an annual weekend of women coming together in nature to help shape the future of surf culture and protect what they love. Through a series of workshops, wellness and connection they grow an ecosystem of passionate, empowered ‘water women’ who make ripples of change. Get in touch if you’d like to join next year.
Belinda emphasises that while individual actions like reducing plastic waste or switching to ethical banking are important, the crisis requires big, systemic change. She argues the most effective thing we can do is get involved with community groups and pressure our politicians to stop destructive projects and accelerate the transition to renewables. For her, taking action is the best antidote to eco-anxiety.
A request from Belinda for help to protect the Great Australian Bight:
“Do something today to help us protect the Great Australian Bight forever. The Great Australian Bight is as wild as it gets. Years ago, Surfers for Climate helped protect it from risky oil drilling – now it’s time to protect it forever with world heritage status.”
→ Learn more and help out Fight for the Bight.
. . .
Songs and perspectives
Throughout the Hour, we feature music and clips that explore the themes of empathy, action, and hope.
We premiere a new song: ‘The Key of Empathy’, featuring audio clips from Greta Thunberg and Belinda Baggs, on how empathy, compassion and connection are central to the green transition – it is not all about carbon counting, technology and machinery costs.
The Key of Empathy | Lyrics
– A song about how compassion and empathy are central to the green transition, inspired by a linkedin-post by Lars Køhler and our interview with Belinda Baggs in The Sustainable Hour no. 552
Damon Gameau: A clip from the filmmaker expressing his disappointment with major political parties and their failure to act on the climate crisis. He says “giving a shit” (also known as empathy) “is kryptonite to the current system,” and urges us to keep caring.
The Great Transition: Excerpts from a video by the Norwegian risk management firm DNV, which argue that we have the technology for a rapid energy transition, but what’s missing is implementation and the political will. The clips also stress the importance of bringing the existing oil and gas industry on board for a faster transition.
Paul Hawken: An inspiring clip from a two-hour episode of The Dhru Purohit podcast – on the intelligence of the living world and how our future lies not in artificial intelligence, but in knowledge and relearning our place in nature.
Songs for action: We also listen to ‘Demand the Shift’ and ‘I Heard It on The Sustainable Hour’, songs from two previous episodes – about our collective power to create change.
. . .
Be the difference: be kind
We always end our Hour with a call to action. This week, Belinda Baggs offers a simple but powerful message: “Be kind”. Belinda urges us to engage with politicians and fossil fuel executives with kindness, be kind to one another, and to use our voices to build a caring and kind community that can create a better future.
Thank you for listening.
“[First I said:] Let’s try and rally as many surfers as we can for positive climate action. And I think that is also part of what we were trying to do at the Water Women’s Campout: try and create a strong network of women across the country that can rally together at times of need, but also be able to take all this information back to their communities and empower their board riders clubs, their surf clubs, their families with ways where we can all feel like we’re taking positive action. Sometimes that’s getting our hands dirty and other times it’s advocating our politicians to do better, and everything in between. So there is a lot that we can all do.”
~ Belinda Baggs, co-founder of Surfers for Climate and ambassador for Patagonia
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We at The Sustainable Hour would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we are broadcasting, the Wadawurrung People. We pay our respects to their elders – past, present, and emerging, and extend that respect to all First Nations people.
The traditional custodians lived in harmony with the land for millennia, nurturing it and thriving in often harsh conditions. Their connection to the land was deeply spiritual and sustainable. This land was invaded and stolen from them. It was never ceded. Today, it is increasingly clear that if we are to survive the climate emergency we face, we must learn from their land management practices and cultural wisdom.
True climate justice cannot be achieved until Australia’s First Nations people receive the justice they deserve. When we speak about the future, we must include respect for those yet to be born, the generations to come. As the old saying reminds us: “We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.” It is deeply unfair that decisions to ignore the climate emergency are being made by those who won’t live to face the worst impacts, leaving future generations to bear the burden of their inaction.
“The Indigenous worldview has been marginalised for generations because it was seen as antiquated and unscientific and its ethics of respect for Mother Earth were in conflict with the industrial worldview. But now, in this time of climate change and massive loss of biodiversity, we understand that the Indigenous worldview is neither unscientific nor antiquated, but is, in fact, a source of wisdom that we urgently need.”
~ Robin Wall Kimmerer, weallcanada.org
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Women are leading the climate fight – will you join them?
We Don’t Have Time wrote in a newsletter on 9 June 2025:
While global leaders gear up for the high-stakes negotiations at COP30, women on the frontlines of the climate crisis are leading the way forward. From 23–28 June 2025, over 125 speakers from 50+ countries will convene virtually at the Global Women’s Assembly for Climate Justice to chart a bold, justice-centered path to Belém and beyond.
Women bear the brunt of climate change—but they also carry the solutions. From food sovereignty and forest protection to energy democracy and Indigenous land rights, women are innovating and organizing at every level. This isn’t just a matter of representation—it’s a strategic imperative. This is the climate leadership the world needs.
Will you be part of it? Read more about why this assembly is so crucial and sign up to attend free, wherever you are.
Full program & Watch on We Don’t Have Time
Sign up to attend virtually
Read more about the Global Women’s Assembly for Climate Justice
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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“She’s a young, angry person. I think she has to go to an anger management class.”
~ U.S. President Donald Trump, about Greta Thunberg
“Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are.”
~ Quote attributed (without evidence) to St Augustine
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Transcript of The Sustainable Hour no. 552
Antonio Guterres, United Nations Chief:
We are flirting with climate disaster.
Jingle:
The Sustainable Hour. For a green, clean, sustainable Geelong: The Sustainable Hour.
Tony Gleeson:
Welcome to The Sustainable Hour. We’d like to acknowledge that we’re on the land of the Wadawarrung people. We pay tribute to their elders – past, present, and those that earn that great honour in the future. We’re on stolen land, land that was never ceded, always was, and always will be First Nations land. Reconciliation Week was held last week. In a couple of weeks time we’ll be having NAIDOC week. Two very special weeks in the calendar for our First Nations people. We are so proud to promote their ancient wisdom that they’ve honed from learning from nurturing both their land and their communities for millennia before their land was stolen. And there are so many answers for us in that ancient wisdom as we navigate the climate crisis.
Alexa Stuart:
Mr Albanese, you say you care about young people. And yet since getting elected your government has approved 33 new coal and gas projects. You are condemning people like me to a lifetime of climate disasters. Of course we have poor mental health issues. When will you listen to young people? When will your government stop approving new coal and gas projects? You say you care about young people! You said…
Mik:
That’s a young climate activist from Rising Tide, Alexa Stuart, interrupting Prime Minister Anthony Albanese’s press conference, where he was about to announce Labor’s commitment for mental health funding.
Alexa:
What I wanted to do today was to draw attention to the hypocrisy of our government who on one hand says that they care about young people and yet on the other are continuing to fuel the climate crisis by approving new coal and gas projects. As a young person I feel so angry and upset. I have experienced eco-anxiety since I have been 15. I am worried that my future will be full of increased floods, fires, famine and drought and I know that the number one driver of that is the continued approval of new coal and gas projects.
Mik:
A clip which SBS put out on their Instagram page. And while Alexa was screaming to Albo that his Labour government is condemning young people to a lifetime of climate disasters with all these new coal and gas projects that they keep opening and approving, you see Albanese standing there on the stage calmly smiling to the audience, signalling, don’t worry about her. And in the meanwhile, the security personnel is busy carrying Alexa out of the room.
Well, I think maybe instead of shouting and protesting and trying to reach the attention of our politicians, who so very obviously will not listen. This weekend, last weekend, I was thinking maybe we need to engage more openly and more positively with the fossil fuel people themselves. So last weekend I wrote a letter to that spokesperson from Viva Energy here in Geelong, who was quoted in the newspaper on Friday in the Geelong Independent as saying, “A gas terminal would be good news for Geelong. A reliable and affordable supply of gas is critical for industry and manufacturing, supporting employment and economic growth.”
Hmm. I would like to welcome this spokesperson who didn’t want his or her name out, maybe to have a cup of coffee, meet at a local cafe and talk this through? You know, there’s some perspectives on this that I would be very interested in hearing Viva Energy’s response to.
First of all, this thing about reliable – you know, describing gas as being ‘reliable’. Is it? Gas supply, first of all: we know it’s a finite resource. The wells are going to run dry eventually. That’s in the long term not very reliable. But further than that, it’s a fuel that leaks. It’s really toxic. People die from inhaling it. And there’s the risk of explosion. To me, none of that says ‘reliability’, honestly.
And then this thing about ‘affordable’. Gas is known today to be the most expensive form of energy in our energy mix. It’s the reason why we have high electricity prices. As we heard last week, where we had Colin Long explain to us, and he knows about this because he is a part of a team that runs an energy retailer, and explaining why gas is the reason that our electricity prices are so high. That’s a well-established fact. So, households and businesses would all be financially better off by switching from gas to electric. Who exactly is gas ‘affordable’ for?, I would ask.
I could go on and on and I’ll put a link to this letter I wrote, which is maybe twice as long as what I’m saying here in the show notes. But the last thing is about employment, claiming that this is about creating jobs and so on. As we get more and more renewables in the system, fossil fuel jobs, are on their way out. And where is that transition plan, Viva Energy, for your workers, your gas workers, when eventually this terminal will become a stranded asset? It’s clearly time not to invest anymore in fossil fuels. If we want long-term secure jobs in Geelong, we need to put our jobs where the future is, which is in energy efficiency, in battery storage, and in anything electric, basically.
My point here is, that I think it would be good if climate activists and the fossil fuel industry was able maybe to speak more respectfully to one another or openly and try to understand where we’re coming from, each of us.
On the page where I put out my letter, I also put quite a bit of information about what’s happening to our climate. Because to me, that is the reason why I’m talking about this issue. You know, I wouldn’t be worried about that other people want to use gas. I don’t want personally, but other people show you if you want to use gas. But the problem is when you use gas, you are also ruining my children’s future in the way that you are putting that pollution up in the atmosphere. And if we get more and more problems with the climate, as we know by now.
So anyway, speaking of problems with the climate, every week we hear what’s happening around the world from Colin Mockett OAM, our reporter who’s got an eye on what’s going on and what you have for us today Colin good news or bad news?
COLIN MOCKETT’S GLOBAL OUTLOOK:
Bad news, Mik, and it’s pretty much related to what you’ve been speaking about. Our roundup today begins in Paris where to the surprise of nobody, a new report found from the World Meteorological Organization detailed how climate change reached new heights last year. The”State of the Global Climate 2024″ document was released and it recorded high global sea surface temperatures and greenhouse gas concentrations. The report detailed that the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide recorded last year was the highest level in the last 800,000 years. Last year was the highest in that length of time and they record it by looking at the carbon in fossils, and they can go back that far. So it really refutes the argument that people used to say that the climate has always been changing. Even in the time of fires which ravaged in our prehistoric times, there was nothing like what we’re putting into the atmosphere now.
And meanwhile, back home here in Australia, our top oil and gas executives met last week in Brisbane at the Australian Energy Producers Conference. Although held behind closed doors, it became apparent that the fossil fuel industry does not see government opposition, nor protest movements as its biggest future threats. Both have been seen off by recent political moves. What the industry now fears most is what it calls activist “lawfare”, meaning fossil fuel and mining companies being taken to court because of the harm that they cause.
At a session titled “From Placards to Plaintiffs”, panellists from Santos and Woodside heard a list of reasons why public interest climate litigation is now the most dangerous threat to their continuing business. They listed a number of strategies to combat these, including delegitimising those plaintiffs, or painting them as either sophisticated operatives with huge budgets or unserious infantile activists with ideological legal strategies. Either way, it looks like the next phase of climate activism is set to be in the courts. And elsewhere in Australia, another new report shows that last week’s decision by the environment minister, Murray Watt, to sign off on Western Australia’s huge North West gas project is not the end of the gas industry’s planned expansions.
There are six more really big projects already in the pipeline and I’ll list them for you. They start with number one, the Barossa gas project that’s located about 300 kilometres north of Darwin in the Timor Sea.
It’s run by Santos and priced at $5.6 billion. The federal government approved this back in April. It will extract gas from the Barossa field and transport it to a liquefied natural gas facility in Darwin for processing and export. Virtually all of the gas that we’re finding around Australia is exported, we should point out here. Now this venture would reportedly be among the worst polluting oil and gas projects in the world, expected to release about 380 million tonnes of climate pollution over its 25-year life.
Number two is the Scarborough-Pluto Train 2 project. This is an extension of Woodside’s existing Scarborough project, centred around a gas field about 375 kilometres off WA’s Pilbara coast. This project is about 80 % complete, has federal and state approval and is scheduled to begin operating by next year. According to Climate Analytics, it would create about 9.2 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent each year.
Number three is Surat, phase two in Gladstone, Queensland. That’ll be operated by Arrow Energy. That’s a joint venture between Shell and PetroChina. It involves substantially expanding existing gas fields by building up to 450 new production wells. At its peak, the project is expected to supply 130 million cubic feet of gas daily.
Number four is a Narrabrai gas project in northwest New South Wales. It involves drilling up to 850 cold-seam gas wells, over 95,000 hectares. The National Native Title Tribunal last month ruled leases for the project could be granted, leaving Santos only a few regulatory barriers to clear. Environmental groups and traditional owners argue that the project threatens water resources, biodiversity and indigenous sites. However, the Tribunal found the project’s benefits to energy reliability outweighed those concerns.
Number five is the Betelgeuse Basin, located 500 kilometres southeast of Darwin. It covers 28,000 kilometres. It’s estimated to contain up to 500 trillion cubic feet of gas, and a number of countries are vying for the right to develop this resource, which is predicted to emit up to 1.2 billion tonnes over 25 years.
And finally, number six, Browse Basin, which is 425 kilometres north of Broome, off WA. It’s considered Australia’s biggest reserve of untapped conventional gas. Woodside plans to develop the Browse gas fields, but the area is remote and difficult to access.
Environmental groups say the project, if approved, would emit 1.6 billion tonnes of climate pollution, and that’s three times Australia’s current annual emissions. They’re all either approved or about to be approved, showing that basically our government and the companies are ignoring the call from everybody in the world to cut back on gas. And just to put all of this into perspective, the Federal Treasury figures last week showed that climate-related weather disasters hit the Australian economy for more than $2 billion in the first half of this year.
Events including Cyclone Alfred and floods in New South Wales and Queensland slowed retail trade and the household spending, costing the economy $2.2 billion in the first six months of 2025. That’s Treasurer Jim Chalmers saying. He also said that the human impact matters more to us must but the economic cost is very significant too. The analysis showed that nominal retail trade in Queensland fell by 0.3% in February and 0.4% in March, and household spending dropped by 0.2%. The government will be there for the people in disaster-hit regions, just like they are there for each other, Chalmers said.
Elsewhere in Parliament House, cross-benchers were given a briefing on the Office of National Intelligence’s Climate Risk Assessment Report, which Independent Senator David Pocock described as, frankly terrifying. And when it comes to parliamentarian, David Pocock is one of the people you can believe what he says. There are hidden perils too with the new research from scientists at Trinity College Dublin.
They suggest that heat waves dramatically alter different parasites’ numbers and their abilities to cause diseases in unpredictable ways. This is ongoing research and we’ll keep an eye on it for you.
But I do have a positive final item for this week. It comes from the Colorado River in America, which supplies water to about 40 million people across seven United States and also Mexico.
Annual consumption from the river regularly exceeds its supply and decades-long droughts, fueled by climate change, continues to leave water levels at the rivers Lake Powell and Lake Mead dangerously low. But now the region’s First Nations people are trialling new projects which site solar panels along the river giving partial shade while other panels are floating and anchored in the river itself. The panels reduce evaporation and they generate carbon-free electricity. That means that they require fewer dams to produce power because most of the power there is hydroelectric. So far the project has avoided President Trump’s environmental act. It’s helped by the fact that it’s run by First Nations people who are using their own money.
Incidentally, a 2022 study found that most of the world’s 13 gigawatts of floating solar capacity has been built in Asia, and with the present White House incumbent, that’s likely to remain the case. And it completes our roundup for the week.
Jingle:
Listen to our Sustainable Hour – for the future.
Tony:
Our guest today is Belinda Baggs. Belinda is the founder of Surfers for Climate. It’s an organisation she still has a lot to do with. She’s a mum, she’s a keen surfer, very concerned about the oceans, the impact that the climate crisis is having on the oceans. So Belinda, thanks very much for giving up your time and coming on.
Belinda Baggs: (at 18:27)
Thanks for having me and good to always chat to you wonderful gentlemen.
Tony:
Yeah, and so what’s up front for you for Surfers for Climate at the moment? What are you protecting?
Belinda:
Well, there’s so much to protect. I think I’ve personally been trying to focus my energy in positive ways. I spent a lot of years fighting the gas expansion down on the Great Ocean Road, which we had some small victories and also a lot of energy trying to stop PEP 11, which was off the Newcastle coastline, Newcastle Sydney coastline over the last couple of years, which has been a major success story, which is absolutely huge. PEPP eleven’s been canceled and not only that, we managed to also ban offshore sea mining in all of New South Wales waters with legislation passing through the New South Wales government, which is a really huge win. Having those positive wins kind of made me realize that there’s only so long you can get kind of buried in the gloom and doom of what’s going on with the climate and it’s slapping us in the face.
I’ve recently moved to Yamba on Yaegl country in New South Wales. And since I’ve been here for the last year, I think we’ve had about three different floods and one cyclone, which has been pretty terrifying to sit through, particularly the cyclone. I think there was, you know, three or so days of a hundred kilometre an hour winds. I was listening to trees like massive hundred year old gum trees snapping and falling in the forest, which is really terrifying. And, you know, the community was really on edge because of what they experienced a couple of years ago in the Lismore flood. So there was a lot of anxiety floating around the community.
But, you know, on the flip side to that is that, you know, everybody really seemed to empower each other, which was fantastic. Like we were filling up sandbags prior to the cyclone and everybody’s getting in there helping each other. So it’s really great to see that, you know, at times of need, everybody coming together and filling themselves with that, you know, that community admiration and really helping each other out. So that’s been a positive since the cyclone.
You know, the water’s been brown here out of the Clarence River for months and months on end. We experienced a blackwater event, which is when all the oxygen in the water is depleted. So there’s zero oxygen and it just kills off all the marine life. So there’s dead fish washing up, you know, really sad to see so much destruction. Also harming some of the fish and other marine life further out into the ocean.
And for us surfers and ocean lovers, we’ve been surrounded by brown, dirty water for months on end. Some days much worse than others. Some days I wouldn’t even go into the water because it’s just putrid. And I’ve heard terrible stories of infections and people getting cuts so infected that they’re losing limbs. And so, yeah, just really trying to pick and choose our days in the water not to mention the coastal erosion and all the other things that are going on. So there’s definitely a lot to be sad about, especially here in New South Wales with the Manning River also just flooding the worst time ever, ever in history, which is really sad for what everybody’s experiencing down there. And my heart goes out to them. You know, there’s absolutely no arguments along this coastline that climate change is happening here. And now we’re experiencing it every couple of weeks.
It’s really terrifying, but on the flip side to that, there is so much that we can do. I started the organisation back in 2019 with a friend, Johnny Abegg, called Surfers for Climate. And our mission is really to empower and mobilise the sea routes movement for positive climate action so we can all continue riding waves in thriving oceans for years to come.
And we know that that means stopping all the polluting bad projects from going ahead, like the gas drilling you were talking about earlier on, which we definitely lean into. I’ve spent a lot of years campaigning on the Great Ocean Road and mentioned PEP elevin and some great victories there, which is a huge win. But it also means trying to speed up the progress to renewables as well and trying to back the things that are going to help us get to, you know, get to lower our emissions in futures to come and surfers for climate is quite unique in the way that we really talk to a surfing community. We’re not just talking to the broader audience, we’re talking to anyone who rides a wave, anyone who swims and surfs and that’s a lot of people from a lot of different walks of life. Sometimes they’re politicians, they’re part of our club, sometimes it’s bankers, sometimes it’s doctors.
Sometimes it’s people like me who just love surfing. In the past I’ve slept on couches. But you know, it’s a really unique opportunity to talk to people from all different walks of life. And the one thing that we’re noticing is a lot of people that are super keen to get on board are women. They tend to lead their communities in climate action. And so just last week we held a awesome weekend called the Water Women’s Campout up in Ballina on Bundjalong Country really aimed at empowering and growing that ecosystem of passionate and empowered water women to make ripples of change in their communities, which was a really great positive way to do things a little bit differently.
Colin: (at 24:23)
Belinda, we really only get to see these disasters on television, on the news and or in the papers and we tend to assume that once they’ve gone, everything returns to normal. Can you tell us whether the river is still running brown? It is. How long has that been the case?
Belinda:
Yeah, so… So the Clarence is usually quite brown. I’ve never seen it crystal clear, unfortunately. There is a lot of farming that goes on upriver, so a lot of cane farms, a lot of cattle farms, as well as lot of land clearing that’s occurred. So there’s quite a lot of pollutants that do run into the river. I’m sure once upon a time it was pristine, but since us white folk have got our hands on it and tried to use it as a resource, it’s definitely not as clean and beautiful as it once was. And so yeah, it is constantly brown, but the ocean surrounding the River mouth is usually quite blue. Some days it can even get pristine, but yes, since the cyclone Alfred, it’s been really murky and really brown. So we haven’t had what I would call any kind of clean water ever since. Double that with constant rain events. Like I said, we didn’t get flooded from the Manning Hunter floods, but we did get rain. It’s kind of continuously pushing down a bit of a brown deluge.
I actually did some volunteering the other day with an awesome organisation called OzFish, their local Clarence chapter. yeah, learned a little bit more about the river from them and got to get into the salt marsh and pull out some invasive weeds and yeah, so was kind of good to get your hands dirty and actually feel like you’re contributing positively. you know, there is ongoing effects from a lot of these events, you know, from fires to floods and, you know, even what’s going on in South Australia with the algae bloom. I think that’s still, you know, having effects.
Colin:
You said earlier that the lack of oxygen caused the fish to kill. Have the fish returned or is it still toxic?
Belinda:
I think they’re starting to return, but you know, it’s killed like not just one species of fish, it killed a lot of fish. And I’m definitely not a specialist in this field. All I can tell you is that when you went down to the river, there were dead fish all along the side of the river. Out in the ocean, there was dead fish washing up and it absolutely stunk. Like it stunk like death. And it was really like horrifying, you know, to think what was coming out of that river.
I’ve also been told that there’s been studies done on a lot of the crabs that live in the river and they generally have really high levels of pollutants from farming practices and other things that are happening along the river. Yeah, in times of flood, everything’s way worse, but there’s a lot to be cleaned up, not just here, but in a lot of river systems.
. . .
SONG
‘The Key of Empathy’
[Verse 1]
I’m fighting for the trees
for the birds and the bees
I treasure every living soul
around my home and beyond
[Bridge]
My vision is a world
where kindness has won
friendships means resilience
and green is the colour of love
[Chorus]
I open my heart (I can feel you now)
I open my door (I invite the light in)
I open my mind to nature’s frequency
I open my ears (I have learned to listen)
I open my eyes (I can see what’s coming)
The key of empathy opens everything I’ll ever be
[Verse 2]
I dream of a world that is clean and just
but I’m aware that requires a major shift
But no new technology – no matter how smart
can heal a world that has lost its heart
[Bridge]
We’ve got all the data and all the skills
We’re selling magical solutions in pills
It’s a simple choice, but it’s a matter of will:
You don’t leave your kids to pay the bill
[Chorus]
I open my heart (I can feel you now)
I open my door (I invite the light in)
I open my mind to nature’s frequency
I open my ears (I have learned to listen)
I open my eyes (I can see what’s coming)
The key of empathy opens everything I’ll ever be
[Instrumental interlude]
[Bridge – spoken]
It starts with you, it starts with me
When we stand for what’s right
And envision what’s possible
[Final chorus]
I open my heart (I can feel you now)
I open my door (I invite the light in)
I open my mind to nature’s frequency
I open my ears (I have learned to listen)
I open my eyes (I can see what’s coming)
The key of empathy opens everything I’ll ever be
Both within and beyond
[Outro – spoken]
With the key of empathy
both within and beyond The Great Transition
we can build a world where hearts align
in deep connection and trust
We will hold the line
so life on Earth will have a future
a future that’s safe
not just for a few
but for us all
AUDIO CLIPS in the song:
Greta Thunberg, interviewed by Democracy Now:
The reason why I am a climate activist is not because I want to protect trees. I’m a climate activist because I care about human and planetary well-being, and those are extremely interlinked.
Narrated voice, inspired by a Linkedin post by Phoebe Tickell:
This is the power of moral imagination: when we expand our perspective beyond ourselves, to future generations and other species, transformation follows.
Narrated voice, inspired by a Linkedin post by Lars Køhler:
Responsibility. Compassion. Connection. Being human. All of it flows from empathy. This is that we, as citizens, must show that we embody, so we can inspire others to do the same.
. . .
Damon Gameau – on Instagram: (at 31:41)
Mmm. It was always gonna happen, wasn’t it? was just… tiny bubble of hope that maybe they might do it differently. Maybe they might not just pan into the corporate overlords again. Maybe they might, because the people recently elected them, actually do something for the people. But no, it’s just more parading and charading and masquerading as usual. And so you… You’re asked to just front up again and care even more deeply. And yet you watch children getting bombed and nothing happens. You watch a planet getting destroyed and nothing happens. They’re just eroding the care. They’re just trying to beat the empathy out of us. “Your virtue signaling.” No, you’re not. You’re giving a shit. But giving a shit is kryptonite to the current system. And so we have to find a way to keep caring, digging deeper into the reserves of empathy. And yet we just keep getting let down. It’s so disappointing. And, yeah, we just gotta stop trusting these major parties. We’ve just gotta get minority governments, strong crossbench, independence. It is the only way to break this. We all know it. But we just, we give a slither of hope and we get let down again.
Mik: (at 33:20)
…says filmmaker Damon Gameau on his Instagram page. Belinda, in The Sustainable Hour in the last month or so, we’ve been on a bit of a climate safe community journey where we have talked to people about this thing about building more resilient and more tightly knitted communities that are ready for whatever is coming, whether that be economic collapse or whether it’s be a catastrophe in terms of the extreme weather and so on.
It sounds like that you are in that process just as well. Give us some maybe some hints and tips? I’m also thinking of poor Alexa who was at this mental health announcement and clearly very, very desperate and talked about eco anxiety as something that she had suffered from since she was 15.
Mik:
Belinda, in The Sustainable Hour in the last month or so, we’ve been on a bit of a climatesafe community journey where we have talked to people about this thing about building more resilient and more tightly knitted communities that are ready for whatever is coming, whether that be economic collapse or whether it’s be a catastrophe in terms of the extreme weather and so on. It sounds like that you are in that process just as well. So give us some… – maybe some hints and tips?
I’m also thinking of poor Alexa, who was at this mental health announcement and clearly very, very desperate and talked about eco-anxiety as something that she had suffered from since she was 15.
Belinda:
Yeah, I think that’s something that a lot of us are suffering from now, particularly the younger generation. I have a 14-year-old son and so, you know, my heart goes out to Alexa and everybody in her generation that are really going to be feeling the brunt of climate impacts. I think that’s been my driver in actually getting behind and trying to do whatever I can.
You know, in lieu of having a climate science background or anything that could really help address the climate crisis, I tried to look into my pool of talents and thought, well, what are those? Like, damn, I can hang towels pretty good. How am I going to positively apply this to the climate crisis? Well, here we go: Let’s try and rally as many surfers as we can for positive climate action. And I think that’s, you know… Part of what we were trying to do at the Water Women’s Campout was to try and create a strong network of women across the country that can rally together at times of need, but also be able to take all this information back to their communities and empower their board riders clubs, their surf clubs, their families with ways where we can all feel like we’re taking positive action. Sometimes that’s getting our hands dirty and other times it’s advocating our politicians to do better, and everything in between. So there is a lot that we can all do.
There’s nothing for me personally quite as beneficial to sort of get rid of some of that eco-anxiety as actually doing something. We can complain all day, but if we don’t get in and actually do something, then we’re not really positively contributing. So it’s just really a matter of finding that way where we all feel comfortable, know, like not everybody might be as comfortable as really brave as Alexa who stepped out there and, you know, spoke her mind to Albo. But, you know, there’s other things that we can do, like at the workshop, Surfers for Climate, things like also trying to protect marine sanctuaries. And we were sort of founded off the back of all the energy from the “Fight for the Bight”. And we wanted to sort of close that loop by trying to ensure that that that Great Australian Bight area stays protected forever from drilling, but also other extractive industries and protected. So we’re really trying to push for World Heritage status for the Great Australian Bight. So it’s really just protecting those areas. And yeah, during the camp out, we did a letter writing workshop where we all got sat down and wrote a letter to our representing MP and told them how important it was for us to be able to protect those spaces.
Colin:
How many women did you have in your group?
Belinda:
So there were over 100 women that were there, which was great. The weekend ran for three days, but there was also day passes. So some women came and stayed and camped the whole time, which was a really amazing experience, and then other women just came in for the day – with a day pass.
Colin:
And can I ask your personal circumstances? First up, when you have your meetings, do you pass on sustainable living tips on how to get subsidies for putting panels on the roof from the state government, and things like that? And do you personally use gas in your home?
Belinda:
I rent, I don’t have gas. I guess that was probably just a lucky choice with the house that I’m renting at the moment. I also don’t have solar panels on my roof because as I mentioned, I’m renting, so that’s unfortunate, but my father-in-law has a whole roof full of solar panels which is amazing.
The camp out itself really focused on quite a few different things, you know, some of it was about wellness, like, so sort of tackling that anxiety that we all have, you know, with the environment and the climate, but also as being female surfers, you know, like it’s pretty well known that female surfers have kind of been on the outer for a long time in the lineup. And so really trying to find ways to connect and make a really inclusive lineup, but also diving into solutions, like having First Nations representatives there to talk about care for country, and things that we can all do to support that, as well as other hands-on things. Like we had OzFish there who were showing us how to make… forget the name of them, but oysters. So like be able to make new oysters because oysters can filter 180 litres of water a day, each oyster, which is really incredible.
We didn’t have anyone there talking about solar panels, but definitely space for that next time. Just sort of equipping everybody with lots of different things that they can do that might be able to help positively contribute from letter writing to restoration, even other things that we can all do in our own homes, like, you know, ways to repair our surfboards instead of getting new ones. So cutting our own emissions that way, things like that – as surfers.
Mik:
One thing, I can tell you, Belinda, that’s happening, which is really interesting in Victoria is that there’s now an experiment where authorities are allowing renters to put up solar panels wherever they can find a space. So for instance, if you know a business owner who’s got a roof, you can put your solar panels up on that roof and then through a virtual electricity grid, you can then get your solar power to your rental apartment. It’s not rolled out yet, but they’re doing experiments with it at the moment. So there’s hope for renters just as well in this space.
Belinda:
Absolutely.
Colin:
Here in Victoria too we have a government-led system which allows landlords to put solar panels on their roofs for tenants and it subsidises it. If you are a tenant that doesn’t necessarily mean that you don’t have solar panels, you can talk to your landlord or your landlord’s representative and say: ‘Hey how about putting solar panels there?’ because there’s, at least in Victoria, there is support for you and there are subsidies that cover landlords to update their properties.
Mik:
Belinda, listeners who would like to, as you say, get more active in their local community… do you have some tips and advice in terms of how to get started? – or sort of give some examples of what’s happening in your local community?
Belinda:
I think there’s so much that we can all do and this is something that I’m constantly asked and I kind of struggle with this answer a little bit, because there’s so many things that we can do at home. Like I’d like to use my own experiences and as example is that I started my climate journey rolling tortillas and making my own almond milk, because I didn’t want to create the plastic waste, which we all know is from a fossil fuel. But I sort of, you know, after hours and hours every day in the kitchen was like: Well, maybe this isn’t the best use of my time, right? And we all do have these limitations around us. And like you mentioned with the solar panels, there’s definitely ways around that. But we have limitations.
And it’s sort of a matter of finding our own superpower and leaning in that way, I think like, you know, whilst I still try and cut as much plastic out as I can, make sure that my superannuation and banking is in sustainable institutions that aren’t investing in fossil fuels. I buy green energy when I do buy energy, my electricity. Usually try and ride my bike and catch public transport when I can.
So there is so much that we can do, but it is limited as an individual. And so I think it’s really trying to seek out those community groups in your area. I know there’s some in Victoria that are talking about community batteries, which is awesome thing to get behind.
There’s other organisations out there that are, and they’re not always just organisations. Sometimes they’re just community groups, but really trying to think local and do what we can in that way, and pushing our local governments as well. Like I’m a big believer in big systemic change over small individual change. Like, there’s only so much we can all do individually. You know, my son goes to school, I have to drive my car to work at times. Like there’s just, there’s things that are out of our control.
And so that’s why we need to lean in on these big systemic changes that need to happen. And, you know, some of that is infrastructure. Some of that is applying new renewable energy sources quicker and quicker, more community batteries, and stopping all this bad shit, you know, that list you went through earlier, the six big polluting projects, like, that’s scary stuff, you know, and it is. It’s bigger than any individual. And so it’s, you know, talking to our elected politicians and making sure that they represent our values because at the end of the day, I want my children to live on a thriving planet, not a dead one.
. . .
‘The Great Transition’ – excerpt from DNV’s youtube video:
There is enough technology, engineering, money, even government policy, international policy. If there was the will to mobilise that, this energy transition could be quite a short journey.
We have to maintain that hope that while it’s not going as quickly as we want or as smoothly as we want that it can still happen and we can leave a better world for future generations.
But it requires people to believe that they’re participating in a greater good.
We do have the tools. What we are missing is three things: Implementation, implementation, implementation. When you scale a new technology you can say, ‘Ah does it really work?’ We know now it works. What we have to do now is to industrialise it and scale it like never before.
You need to have trust in the way forward. And also the government needs to have the policy consistently. So if you want to go to that road, you should not change it after four years, after a new government.
I think it’s very important to understand how the current fossil fuel industries are going to cope with this transition. Because if we don’t bring them on board, they become a barrier, and that means reducing the speed of transition, and we can’t afford to do that.
We need to transition away from oil and gas as fast as possible, but we need to do that in a safe and sustainable way as well. That can only happen with those oil and gas companies playing a leading role also in the energy transition.
The imbedded knowledge in that industry is incredible. and gas engineers could help to engineer offshore wind farms.
Sometimes we’re fixated on the idea that there’s still plenty of fossil fuels available, why would we stop using them? They didn’t run out of stones for the Stone Age to come to an end.
This is the only future that we can really be working towards. It’s possible that in three decades from now, people looking back at the energy transition will be even surprised that it was such a hot topic because they were considered natural, that most of our energy comes from electricity, and most of that electricity is produced by wind and solar.
Hard to imagine, but you would have never seen a winter here. All of this would have been dry, dead land.
. . .
Mik: (at 46:56)
An excerpt from two YouTube videos that a Norwegian consultancy firm called DNV has put out called ‘The Great Transition 2025 to 2050’, giving some insights into this idea of looking at the energy transition and the green transition from both sides of the table, both from the fossil fuel industry side and from the youth, the climate activists who want to see acceleration in the shift to renewables. DNV stands for Det Norske Veritas, and you can find them on DNV.com.
Jingle
Mik:
That’s all we could fit in one surfing-friendly and ocean-focused Sustainable Hour. Thank you very much, Belinda Baggs from Surfers for Climate.
Belinda:
Thanks for having me!
Mik:
Belinda, we always end our Hour with a ‘Be the difference’-kind-of statement. What would you want to ‘be’ – or what would you think recommend our listeners that they should be?
Belinda:
‘Be kind.’ I think we should all try and practice more kindness. I think you’re right in what you were saying earlier is that sometimes it’s reaching out to these fossil fuel executives in a kind manner. Sometimes it’s reaching out to our politicians in a kind manner and hope that they’re listening, and also being kind to one another because spreading the hate isn’t helping anybody. So we need to really lean in and, you know, be a community, be a solid, caring community for each other, and be kind to those that are in power, and yeah, let them know, let’s use our voices in a kind manner that will hopefully get us a better future.
Mik:
I love that, Belinda, and that so much rings all the bells in my world: ‘Be kind!’
Colin:
Yep, I’ll go along with that one.
. . .
SONG
‘Demand the Shift’
[Verse 1]
They’ve ruled our world for two centuries
Black gold was the lifeblood of our economy
They paid their way to block any regulation
But the tide is turning and now power is free!
[Chorus]
Demand the shift! And then you shift the demand
The world is changing ’cause you take a stand
We set the course, we draw the line
The real power to change is yours and mine
[Verse 2]
When we don’t need CDs, those factories close
Coal and gas is in an even worse collapse
No need to ban it, we won’t have to fight it
When the market starts moving, it will be killed overnight
[Chorus]
Demand the shift! And then you shift the demand
The world is changing ’cause you take a stand
We set the course, we draw the line
The real power to change is yours and mine
[Bridge]
We plug into sun, we harness the breeze
We drive electric, we’re planting trees
We choose the brands that play it fair
Demand a future without despair
[Chorus]
Demand the shift! And then you shift the demand
The world is changing ’cause you take a stand
We set the course, we draw the line
The real power to change is yours and mine
[Outro]
The real power to change the system
lies with us when we move together
We shift the gear and we are changing the story
The world is safer now because we starved the demand
Audio clips in the song:
Garth Kane:
It’s an old cliché that we should be the change we want to see in the world. Well the most effective way to do that is to increase demand for the components of a sustainable economy. Every pound, euro or dollar you spend makes a difference and you should use it to demand a different world.
. . .
Paul Hawken, American author – in an episode of The Dhru Purohit podcast on youtube.com: (at 52:28)
We literally don’t know the Earth. We don’t know where we live. But furthermore, we don’t know who we live with. Our understanding of invertebrates, invertebrates, and creatures, and birds, cetera, is just now sort of opening up to the idea that plants, insects have consciousness, have language, have emotion. These qualities that we have never associated with the living world. And that is the on the we’re on the cusp of a huge breakthroughs in science and understanding, you know, not just the whales speak, they do. And we understand that. And we have obviously primate behaviour studied by Jane Goodall and others in terms of their communication. But we’re talking now about bees having emotion. And this is science. This is not projection.
And that’s what I mean about, that’s our family, that’s our kin, not biologically, you know, in the sense of genetics, but without whom there is no life on earth. And so to give a sort of expansive sense of the words you read, the complexity, the majesty of this place, it just changes perhaps your sense of respect. And then, maybe it changes your sense of what you are doing or not doing as a denizen of this planet. You’re here, you come, you live, and you go. So what are you going to do while you’re here? Are you going to increase life on Earth? Are you going to decrease it? Are you going to destroy what has taken a billion years to create and we’re losing 70… we’ve lost 70 per cent of our mammalian population in the last 50 years! That’s a pretty rapid decrease. Or are you going to do, are you going to act in such a way, live your life in such a way that absolutely creates more life, not only for your children and your children’s children, but for all people who follow us?
And actually the fact is that by and large, indigenous people, that is to say, the tribal cultures, and maybe tribal is not the right adjective, have been doing that for tens of thousands of years. And you could say, well, they didn’t have a choice. Fair enough. They didn’t have technology, they didn’t have ways not to, but they stayed in the place and they learned to live there. And it taught them how to be, in a sense, the artistic caretakers, you know, but the progenitors of life in that place, that is to create more life. And so if you look backwards and you look at the record that we have that we’re putting together anthropologically and biologically of people who lived before the settlers, before the colonists, before they were in a sense discovered and then rapidly in many cases not terminated, but exploited.
You find people who have extraordinary way of seeing the planet. They could hear plants. We thought, yeah, right. You know, we are mocking them. They actually can hear plants. They can communicate in such a way. They see a world differently. Well, they’ve been there for thousands of years, had lots of time to learn how to do that. We’ve been here, I say the settler colonists, they’ve been here a relatively short time. Now I don’t mean to exempt China, India, and cultures go back four or 5,000 years. Those are different than the settler colonist cultures that I’m referring to who came in from Europe to the Americas. But I think what I’m trying to get at is like, there’s so much wisdom around this. There’s so much knowledge. The future is not in intelligence. The future is in knowledge. And we’re all kind of an AI. It doesn’t matter whether it’s artificial intelligence or not.
The future is in knowledge, and knowledge is gained in a completely different way than intelligence.
. . .
SONG (at 56:47)
‘I Heard It on The Sustainable Hour’
[Verse 1]
I woke up feeling like the world’s on fire,
Storms are rising, rivers running drier.
But then I tuned in, turned the dial,
And found a reason to stay inspired.
[Pre-Chorus]
They said, “The greatest threat is thinking someone else will do it.”
But I can feel the change – I know we’re moving through it.
[Chorus]
I heard it on The Sustainable Hour
Hope’s alive, and the time is now.
Stand up, speak out, let’s build our power,
Be the difference – we know how.
[Verse 2]
They talk of profits, pipelines, and delay,
But we’ve got voices that won’t fade away.
From city streets to the coastal sand,
We’re backing leaders who take a stand.
[Pre-Chorus]
They said, “A society grows great when we plant trees in whose shade we may never sit.”
So let’s rise up, this is it.
[Chorus]
I heard it on The Sustainable Hour
Hope’s alive, and the time is now.
Stand up, speak out, let’s build our power,
Be the difference – we know how.
[Bridge]
We are the voices, we are the wave,
Lifting each other, brave and unafraid.
It’s not too late, don’t wait for someday,
Together we’ll light the way.
[Final Chorus]
We heard it on The Sustainable Hour
Hope’s alive, and the time is now.
Rise up, reach out, this is our power,
Be the difference – we know how!
Audio clip in the song:
Unite in a national effort to save from destruction all that makes life itself worth living.
. . .
Black Sails – audio clip from the Netflix series:
Nobody will believe that it’s possible until we show. When the comes, you know what they’ll say? They’ll say that it was inevitable.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Events we have talked about in The Sustainable Hour
Events in Victoria
The following is a collation of Victorian climate change events, activities, seminars, exhibitions, meetings and protests. Most are free, many ask for RSVP (which lets the organising group know how many to expect), some ask for donations to cover expenses, and a few require registration and fees. This calendar is provided as a free service by volunteers of the Victorian Climate Action Network. Information is as accurate as possible, but changes may occur.
Petitions
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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